Bi-amping (Dirty amp + clean w/fuzz) HELP!!!

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Post Reply
vitja
Tiny Terror
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:43 pm
Location: Slovenia EU

Bi-amping (Dirty amp + clean w/fuzz) HELP!!!

Post by vitja » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:25 am

Hi!

Ok, this is not directly related to Orange, but I'm asking here because I trust you guys! And also because I would like to do the same setup…

OK, here it goes…

In my band, other guitarist is playing Marshall JCM 800 and Ampeg VT22. Marshall is on dirty channel and Ampeg is on clean channel. So He (or probably I, because I do all the setups for him, because he is really not a technical person) uses SG running into Boss tuner > Crybaby > custom ABC splitter > A goes to JCM, B goes to Fuzz > Ampeg.
He plays both amps at the same time all the time and both dirty.

So the problems are changing all the time. Mostly we have a problem with Fuzz running into Ampeg. For few years we used Fuzz face clone (Venus fuzz), a very good one, made out of new old stock elements. But lately, Venus is acting strange… like a better is dying all the time. So We were searching for alternative and I brought my old Vox Wah-Distortion, which has a some king of silicon fuzzfece fuzz inside.

The problem here is that when he uses his Crybaby (which is before the splitter), the gain drops like se would fur down the volume on guitar. Really strange. I know that fuzz pedals do all the strange things in chain, but this is something I newer saw before.

At this point, the sound of bot amps is great. But he cannot use a way pedal on both amps, which is crucial for his sound. I know that using way before a fuzz is sometimes not the best choice, but he doesn't mid it. But with this fuzz, wah is just making the signal cleaner and not functioning like a Wah pedal.

I think it is time to invest into a really good AB splitter like Fulltone True Path AB.

I need to try this with passive splitter like Tonebone, but then the signal is passively splitted, and gain goes down.

It would be useful if someone can show me a guitar rig of a major player who uses 2 amps, one dirty and one clean with fuzz. Actually, all the companies that are making splitter pedals are talking about how good their splitter is. But I think we need some more theory behind all this.
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

a.hun
Duke of Orange
Posts: 9764
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl

Re: Bi-amping (Dirty amp + clean w/fuzz) HELP!!!

Post by a.hun » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:26 am

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42819" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On fuzz, you don't really want to have an active buffer before it. The Boss Tuner has a buffer. How about that 'custom ABC splitter'? (ABY?)


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

Boy_Narf
Orange Master
Posts: 2442
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:27 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Bi-amping (Dirty amp + clean w/fuzz) HELP!!!

Post by Boy_Narf » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:26 pm

+1 keep all the buffers after any fuzz pedal.

Would only recommend active/buffered ABY boxes for your needs. Like you said, the signal will drop. Check out the Radial Tonebone Twin City. Affordable and rock solid. The drag control might get it to work better if you are putting the fuzz after it.

I gave up on the ABY dream a long time ago and just do the AB thing now.
TT | TTC | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

PedalTrain2 | Zuma

GLXD16 | Decimate | FlashBackMini | ST1 | TimeLine | BlueSky | RangIII | DMC3XL | EX-50

www.scratchbuffalo.com
www.soundcloud.com/modestnews

vitja
Tiny Terror
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:43 pm
Location: Slovenia EU

Re: Bi-amping (Dirty amp + clean w/fuzz) HELP!!!

Post by vitja » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:26 am

This is strange. First time (on soundcheck actually) when we tried this fuzz with his setup, wah was not functioning. Yesterday I tried in our rehearsal place and it is fine… my thoughts were the same… I need to place tuner after way. It worked. But then I swapped back, and it still worked… no difference.

Yes Boss tuner is buffered, the custom ABC splitter is buffered.

But what about the True Path??? I was reading about it on full tone site.
Here is text about the buffers:

Each channel has switchable JFET Buffers to drive long lengths of cables without any tone loss. Want it clean & clear for Fuzztones? Let me explain: Fuzz pedals like to be hit with High impedance signal like your pickups produce. Buffers are Low Impedance, so if you are a Fuzz connoisseur like me you simply turn off the buffer on the ABY channel that goes to your Fuzzes.

I still don't get it. Can you turn off the buffer just for one channel? And it is transformer based, so it kinda nails it.

Any opinion on this expensive gadget that can save your life?
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

Boy_Narf
Orange Master
Posts: 2442
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:27 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Bi-amping (Dirty amp + clean w/fuzz) HELP!!!

Post by Boy_Narf » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:43 pm

I've not see that one before. Looks like you can turn off the buffer on each channel independently, that's cool!

Do you really need an ABY box? What about just getting a stereo pedal to combine the signals? Are you switching between amps, or have them both on all the time?
TT | TTC | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

PedalTrain2 | Zuma

GLXD16 | Decimate | FlashBackMini | ST1 | TimeLine | BlueSky | RangIII | DMC3XL | EX-50

www.scratchbuffalo.com
www.soundcloud.com/modestnews

a.hun
Duke of Orange
Posts: 9764
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl

Re: Bi-amping (Dirty amp + clean w/fuzz) HELP!!!

Post by a.hun » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:39 am

Boy_Narf wrote:Do you really need an ABY box? What about just getting a stereo pedal to combine the signals?
Can work, but depends on the pedal. Some better ones isolate the two outputs properly, but many / most don't, leading to potential serious hum problems.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 56 guests