I fear that Orange will suffer a decline...

[Wendigo]

I'm afraid that as much as I love Orange, they have over the past 10-15 years drifted into the highly publicized "angst" scene and money-grab realm of compressed high gain nonsense. I see my personal fiends and customers returning to basic models of classic Orange, Matamp, Fender and Marshall designs. It's been fun though while it lasted. Orange should return to the basic no-nonsense powerful-when-cranked-stuff from yester-year, unless they want to become today's "Trace Elliot".

[Krister]

I disagree.

[Sooner]

[Ronnie Robinson]

I'm afraid that as much as I love Orange, they have over the past 10-15 years drifted into the highly publicized "angst" scene and money-grab realm of compressed high gain nonsense. I see my personal fiends and customers returning to basic models of classic Orange, Matamp, Fender and Marshall designs. It's been fun though while it lasted. Orange should return to the basic no-nonsense powerful-when-cranked-stuff from yester-year, unless they want to become today's "Trace Elliot".

I do know what you mean.

I've never been one for high gain this or 'dark' that but have enjoyed for years the more classic and simple amps Orange have made such as the Ad30htc, Rocker 30 and Tiny Terror.......(two of these are now discontinued).

I hope despite the introduction of the R32, That Orange will still cater for those that still prefer a simpler type of amp with classic voiced tones and not see the R32 as their token , newly introduced, classic voiced amp.

Also , surely Orange still need an OR in the line up .

[thejay]

Understood from the recent discontinued products but I do not believe that is truly the case

[fiveightandten]

Orange should return to the basic no-nonsense powerful-when-cranked-stuff from yester-year

That's not where the money is.

I have the same preferences as you, but we are no longer the target market for their core products. The music gear market has become a living breathing tech market. Look at what goes on at NAMM. This is huge business. There are millions of people in the game. I'm not really one of them, as I'm happy to play the old outdated stuff I've owned for years. But I get it. They're making big money off this stuff.

Orange is bigger than they've ever been. I don't see why they'd forego that to cater to a minority in the market.

[FleshOnGear]

Orange should return to the basic no-nonsense powerful-when-cranked-stuff from yester-year

That's not where the money is.

I have the same preferences as you, but we are no longer the target market for their core products. The music gear market has become a living breathing tech market. Look at what goes on at NAMM. This is huge business. There are millions of people in the game. I'm not really one of them, as I'm happy to play the old outdated stuff I've owned for years. But I get it. They're making big money off this stuff.

Orange is bigger than they've ever been. I don't see why they'd forego that to cater to a minority in the market.

That all makes sense. So, why not at least expand the custom shop offerings, to at least maintain the legacy created by the classic products? Set prices that make sense and I'm sure that there will be buyers. Marshall has production versions of some of their classics. I don't think Orange necessarily needs to make these types of products on their production lines, but I think a select set of custom shop offerings would do a lot for the brand.

I would love to see an OR120 and a really nice 2-channel, master volume, SS rectifier amp that stays faithful to the classic Orange tone. Just dreaming out loud...

[Boy_Narf]

True. Musicians all over the world seem to be broke. Not to mention the fact that lots of folks are moving over to AXE-FX and Kemper. I would love to have a few custom shop options to choose from. Heck, even if they did build to order that would be great! Then you know you are getting a top quality product, that will last decades to come.

[bclaire]

Understood from the recent discontinued products but I do not believe that is truly the case

agreed...

[fiveightandten]

That all makes sense. So, why not at least expand the custom shop offerings, to at least maintain the legacy created by the classic products? Set prices that make sense and I'm sure that there will be buyers. Marshall has production versions of some of their classics. I don't think Orange necessarily needs to make these types of products on their production lines, but I think a select set of custom shop offerings would do a lot for the brand.

I would love to see an OR120 and a really nice 2-channel, master volume, SS rectifier amp that stays faithful to the classic Orange tone. Just dreaming out loud...

I've long wondered if Orange just doesn't own the rights to build the OR-120 or OR-80. The company folded and it was Gibson who contracted Trace Elliott to build the reissue OR-80/120 amps in the 90's. Orange came back and built the OTR, but note that they made a number of circuit changes, and called it something totally different from the "OR-120". They also made up a fancy name for the acronym, which always gave me a bit of a chuckle, as the amp really was an OR-120. It's no more different than other circuit iterations of the 70's amps were to one another...and those all had the same name.

Anyways, would Gibson have been building these amps through Trace without paying for the rights to do so? I doubt it. So the question might be whether or not Orange purchased the rights to build them from Gibson once the company was making amps again. We haven't seen an OR80/120 yet, have we? Amps that they tout as a paying "tribute" to the "graphic" or "pics only" amps aren't really anything like the old ones. I also don't think I've ever seen them say the models "OR-120" or "OR-80" on the website or in print when they mention those things.

I'm not basing this on anything concrete. It's just a curiosity I've had, and I could be off base with it.

Anyways, Orange custom shop amps have always been fairly limited production periods of classic sounding barebones amps. They don't build high gain complicated channel switchers in the custom shop. So, in a sense, I really think they may be doing what they can legally, what they desire to do, and what the market will bear. They sold a lot of OR-120/80 amps, but they don't fetch the prices that those old Marshalls do on the used market. Orange would be indirect competition with their used market. Marshall really isn't.

Again, I could be off base, but I don't think they can build those amps, and I think it would be more trouble than it's worth for them to go through the steps to build them, as they'd likely be a somewhat limited product for them. I've owned a number of OR-120/80 amps. I was recently in the market for one and I bought a used 90's head. Knowing the custom shop pricing, would I have considered a new Orange custom shop OR-120? Probably not.

-Nick

[Bensnake]

That all makes sense. So, why not at least expand the custom shop offerings, to at least maintain the legacy created by the classic products? Set prices that make sense and I'm sure that there will be buyers. Marshall has production versions of some of their classics. I don't think Orange necessarily needs to make these types of products on their production lines, but I think a select set of custom shop offerings would do a lot for the brand.

I would love to see an OR120 and a really nice 2-channel, master volume, SS rectifier amp that stays faithful to the classic Orange tone. Just dreaming out loud...

+1

A vintage reissue series, like Marshall does, would be a great thing. OR80 and 120, with and without MV. I'd buy me one.

[FleshOnGear]

That all makes sense. So, why not at least expand the custom shop offerings, to at least maintain the legacy created by the classic products? Set prices that make sense and I'm sure that there will be buyers. Marshall has production versions of some of their classics. I don't think Orange necessarily needs to make these types of products on their production lines, but I think a select set of custom shop offerings would do a lot for the brand.

I would love to see an OR120 and a really nice 2-channel, master volume, SS rectifier amp that stays faithful to the classic Orange tone. Just dreaming out loud...

I've long wondered if Orange just doesn't own the rights to build the OR-120 or OR-80. The company folded and it was Gibson who contracted Trace Elliott to build the reissue OR-80/120 amps in the 90's. Orange came back and built the OTR, but note that they made a number of circuit changes, and called it something totally different from the "OR-120". They also made up a fancy name for the acronym, which always gave me a bit of a chuckle, as the amp really was an OR-120. It's no more different than other circuit iterations of the 70's amps were to one another...and those all had the same name.

Anyways, would Gibson have been building these amps through Trace without paying for the rights to do so? I doubt it. So the question might be whether or not Orange purchased the rights to build them from Gibson once the company was making amps again. We haven't seen an OR80/120 yet, have we? Amps that they tout as a paying "tribute" to the "graphic" or "pics only" amps aren't really anything like the old ones. I also don't think I've ever seen them say the models "OR-120" or "OR-80" on the website or in print when they mention those things.

I'm not basing this on anything concrete. It's just a curiosity I've had, and I could be off base with it.

Anyways, Orange custom shop amps have always been fairly limited production periods of classic sounding barebones amps. They don't build high gain complicated channel switchers in the custom shop. So, in a sense, I really think they may be doing what they can legally, what they desire to do, and what the market will bear. They sold a lot of OR-120/80 amps, but they don't fetch the prices that those old Marshalls do on the used market. Orange would be indirect competition with their used market. Marshall really isn't.

Again, I could be off base, but I don't think they can build those amps, and I think it would be more trouble than it's worth for them to go through the steps to build them, as they'd likely be a somewhat limited product for them. I've owned a number of OR-120/80 amps. I was recently in the market for one and I bought a used 90's head. Knowing the custom shop pricing, would I have considered a new Orange custom shop OR-120? Probably not.

-Nick

I get your points about the viability of an OR120 reissue. Vintage Oranges might not have quite the renown that Marshalls or Fenders have, but I think it's feasible for a PCB OR to compete well against the current prices of 90's OR amps, and for handwired versions to compete against the originals. The fact that I've never encountered either an original or a reissue in person might have something to do with my opinion. I guess PCB construction excludes an amp from a Custom Shop designation, though. As far as rights to the OR go, I suppose it could be a trademark issue. There's nothing in the circuitry that isn't in the public domain, AFAIK.

I think the larger point, which I clouded with the examples I gave, is that a couple more high end offerings might be good for the brand. Maybe these offerings would be slightly less profitable, but they could add prestige. They don't have to be what I suggested, of course. Ade has a bit of an individualistic streak, and I bet he would rather come up with something new, rather than a retread. And I have no doubt he would come up with something cool.

Simply put, I would love to see more than just the CS50 available. Times are tough for a lot of musicians, but not all of them. I can't afford Custom Shop gear right now, but somebody out there can, and that kind of gear gives me something to keep in my aspirations.

To the original point of this thread, I don't think the brand is in decline. I understand the worry. I don't prefer the overall trend in music toward overly compressed, buzzy tones, but Orange has done a good job at keeping up to date without going off the deep end.

[a.hun]

I'm with Nick - I've also long suspected that Orange simply don't have the rights to build the old OR80 / 120 amp models. Indeed just a theory, but I think it is pretty likely right.

Doesn't really matter TBH. They were designed and built in the days of massive stage volume levels, and were very very successful at that. Massively loud guitar amps, even the OR80s. However they just don't sound that good until cranked a fair bit. (And also need really good power valves for good performance and reliability!) They simply aren't really very practical guitar amps these days IMO.

Lower wattage amps like 30 - 50 watters are PLENTY loud enough for almost all stages now, and very few people who buy bigger amps get to push them properly very often. At least though most modern 100 watters (and many other vintage ones, but not the Oranges) will sound fairly decent at lower volume levels. Master volume circuits (and things like attenuators) are much more effective now than the really primitive MV on my '78 Overdrive. But then I almost always used that amp for bass. Truly great tones for bass, but pitiful clean headroom, so too loud for guitar but not really loud enough for bass compared to other '100 watters'. These days they are (IMO anyway) just glorious anachronisms...

Orange have simply moved with the times, but, as always, have done it in their own sweet way. I like the fact that they can take a look backwards while still moving forwards. The new Rockers (15 / 32) are an example, and I’d love (but can’t really justify) a new R.15 in black. Not going to sell my old R.30C for it though – no way! If you want something close to the old ORs in character and response, but actually practical to use properly, that remains the amp for me! (Though TBH for what I'm doing these days the R.15 would be even more practical!)

What I think Orange have always done best is to come up with amps which are different but really effective, often with very simple controls – just the way I like it. But I have no beef with them going in different directions to suit guitarist with different needs. And they have even practically created new markets, eg the TT lunchbox thing. They weren’t the very first to come up with that style of amp, THD for one had them earlier, and my old 70’s 10W TOA PA amp fits the bill too. But they certainly made the whole thing popular, just look at all the other amp companies doing it now!

It'll always seem a bit strange when they discontinue great models, but it is also totally natural. Orange are a pretty sussed and successful company these days, and will always have to make commercial decisions. There will be new models coming along no doubt, though probably not as direct replacements for the discontinued ones. Because they just don’t work that way, and more power to them for that I’d say!


Andy.

[Gladmarr]

...I think it's feasible for a PCB OR to compete well against the current prices of 90's OR amps, and for handwired versions to compete against the originals.

All the OR80s and OR120s were PCB amps. None of them were handwired. Unless you mean handwired to the PCB.

[fiveightandten]

I get your points about the viability of an OR120 reissue. Vintage Oranges might not have quite the renown that Marshalls or Fenders have, but I think it's feasible for a PCB OR to compete well against the current prices of 90's OR amps, and for handwired versions to compete against the originals. The fact that I've never encountered either an original or a reissue in person might have something to do with my opinion. I guess PCB construction excludes an amp from a Custom Shop designation, though. As far as rights to the OR go, I suppose it could be a trademark issue. There's nothing in the circuitry that isn't in the public domain, AFAIK.

I think the larger point, which I clouded with the examples I gave, is that a couple more high end offerings might be good for the brand. Maybe these offerings would be slightly less profitable, but they could add prestige. They don't have to be what I suggested, of course. Ade has a bit of an individualistic streak, and I bet he would rather come up with something new, rather than a retread. And I have no doubt he would come up with something cool.

Simply put, I would love to see more than just the CS50 available. Times are tough for a lot of musicians, but not all of them. I can't afford Custom Shop gear right now, but somebody out there can, and that kind of gear gives me something to keep in my aspirations.

To the original point of this thread, I don't think the brand is in decline. I understand the worry. I don't prefer the overall trend in music toward overly compressed, buzzy tones, but Orange has done a good job at keeping up to date without going off the deep end.

They've been pretty consistent with offering quality custom shop amps, though they're done in limited runs. They had the AD-140, Retro 50, AD50, Tiny Terror HW, and now the Custom shop 50. They had an AD200 custom shop amp as well, and IIRC there was also an AD15 custom shop for a short time.

I suppose more of these might be a good thing. But I don't know much about how the market is divided. It seems that Orange is bigger than they've ever been, so I suspect they're doing something right.

All that being said, I agree with you completely. I've played most of the modern era Oranges and I have little to no interest in any of them. I have an AD30TC, which is a good amp, but I just haven't bonded with it like I have with the OR-120's and OR-80's I've owned. It's for sale right now, as I replaced it with something else. I currently have a 90's OR-80 and an early 70's pics only GRO100. If I were to get another Orange, it would likely be a Retro 50.

If you ever have the chance to check out an OR-80 or OR-120, definitely do it. IMO, no modern Orange touches these amps. They have a sound all their own, and it's something that no amp has achieved since. However, as great as they sound, they are brutally loud. I used my OR-80 at a gig on Friday. I use the amp into a Fryette Power Station. Towards the end of the night, our volumes were their loudest and the Power Station was at like 60%. I decided I'd flip the bypass switch, thinking the untamed OR-80 wouldn't be THAT much louder than what were were playing at. Boy was I wrong! I flipped that switch back in a hurry. Great amps, but the master volume is nearly useless without totally killing the sound.

-Nick