Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

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vitja
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Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by vitja » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:18 pm

Hi!

I'm very exited about this.
This guy is selling a vintage Matamp-Orange 4x12

http://www.bolha.com/glasbila-glasbena- ... &kw=matamp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, somebody was that stupid to paint it black, and you can see how badly this was done… some black paint on grill cloth.

And he wants 800 euros for it.

He says that it has greenbacks inside, but I suspect that this are G12H pre rola if they are original to the cab.

Do you guys think that this is a fair price? Or can I lower the price because of that shitty paint job?

And if I buy it, is there a way to restore it to original condition?
Or it is better to retolex it?
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by Les Paul Lover » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:41 pm

I was recently looking at one on eBay for £600 that didn't sell and was in very good condition.

€800 is way too high in my opinion. Not just marginally too high.... But at the end of the day, if a buyer decides to buy it at the price, he then had his price right. I very much doubt it though.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

bclaire
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by bclaire » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:53 pm

Hmm... wish there was a side photo as well. €800 seems like a high price with the painted - I would suspect it could go for more if unpainted. You could try to remove the paint starting with the underside and see if it comes off - paint on the grillcloth there's nothing you can do about that... except maybe try to match the grillcloth with an acrylic paint color mixing and touch it up?

If the speakers are original, they're probably Pre-Rola's like you said and the speakers alone are worth the price asking...

vitja
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by vitja » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:02 pm

Thanx for advice!

Yes, if speakers are pre rola I think the price is ok. But if they are 25 waters, thats not enough for me. I really don't want to blow them.

I will try to lower the price because of shitty paint job. Maybe for like 650 euros. That would be great.

Anyway, I can buy new PPC Orange (used) for 700 euros, but I really don't like V30. And I want a proper vintage cab for my OR120.

Another question is: Did mat amp-orange put greenies (25) inside their cabs?
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by bclaire » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:01 am

What are you running for a head into it? Since it's not a ported cab, 25 watt Celestions can easily handle a 100 watt head - and for example, I used to run my Marshall Superlead which put out 147 watts into a single vintage greenback 25 watter cab. The closed cab helps reduce the full travel of the speakers a bit, saving them from blowing.

vitja
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by vitja » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:41 pm

bclaire wrote:What are you running for a head into it? Since it's not a ported cab, 25 watt Celestions can easily handle a 100 watt head - and for example, I used to run my Marshall Superlead which put out 147 watts into a single vintage greenback 25 watter cab. The closed cab helps reduce the full travel of the speakers a bit, saving them from blowing.
Wow?!!! Really?! 145 watts into 1 greenie ??? :shock:

I'm talking or120 head, with some have fuzz on top, Gain on full, FAC on 2 (left side).

So it is ok to run or120 on max volume into 4x12 with G12H or even G12M???
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

vitja
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by vitja » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:51 pm

Ok, some update!

The guy who is selling is was so kind to let me take the cab and test it in my studio.

It looks better than the photos… Black shitty paint job is don on original rolex. It is not pretty, but who cares…

OK, so here it goes…

It has original vintage pre rola G12M 75. T1220, 102 003 cones. They are in really good shape! Spiders are fine and tide.
They sound fabulous!!!

This is the first time I play a real pre rola greenies. It is rock n roll heaven!!! :mrgreen:

They compress really nice, and they have that woody quality because go 75Hz cones… Midrange is creamy and highs are nice, not harsh…

My Or120 sounds great, but I wish I could try it on full volume. No with this cones, I really don't want to do that. I can hear them distorting if I push my amp to loud… I really don't want to blow them.

So I'm thinking to sold the cones to someone who could use them in less fragile way… And I can put my Blackbacks inside, which are perfect for my heavy stoner rock - full volume pile of poop.

Also, they have too much of a midrange for me. It is really nice sounding but not for my band.

So, what to do???

Any suggestions?
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:18 am

I'd pass personally. If the speakers aren't your thing, is worth getting a poorly painted cab????


Here's the one I saw on eBay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311771506702" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OK, not an orange matamp, but vintage, and didnt sell for £620 last week.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

MikeD
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by MikeD » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:40 am

I agree with the above. Vintage sort of losses its meaning when the first thing you need to do is exchange the speakers...then you´re just left with a box and a bad paint-job!!
Gibson: Angus Young SG 03 / LP Standard 05 / Firebird V 01
Orange: RV50 mkII & ppc212-c / Micro Dark & ppc112
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ironlung40
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by ironlung40 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:07 pm

I agree that just the box isn't worth much without the original speakers unless you are just in absolute need of the look, in which case, this one has been painted over.

The new matamp boxes and orange boxes are well made enough, that I would just buy one of those new or used.
Sincerely,
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vitja
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by vitja » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:23 pm

OK, lets face it.

I played this cab for 2 days now…

Greenbacks just don't do the trick, but I know that this cab is much more capable than, lets say Marshall JCM 800 cab or something in that domain.

Yes, looks matter to me. And If you ask me if I would buy an almost new PPC 4x12 with china made V30 for 700 euros or Ormat for 700 euros with this greenies… Common.

I can sell this babies to good friend of mine who would be more than happy and play some serious blues on this greenies, and almost cover the cost of the Ormat, and put my Blackbacks in Ormat, which I was playing them like 1 hour ago and they sound fabulous!

So the question is… Are this greenies original speakers in Ormat?

I tried to get rid of the black paint and it works… some chemical pile of poop and is gone… No problem with that.
Other than that it is almost in a mint condition.
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:47 pm

vitja wrote:OK, lets face it.

I played this cab for 2 days now…

Greenbacks just don't do the trick, but I know that this cab is much more capable than, lets say Marshall JCM 800 cab or something in that domain.

Yes, looks matter to me. And If you ask me if I would buy an almost new PPC 4x12 with china made V30 for 700 euros or Ormat for 700 euros with this greenies… Common.

I can sell this babies to good friend of mine who would be more than happy and play some serious blues on this greenies, and almost cover the cost of the Ormat, and put my Blackbacks in Ormat, which I was playing them like 1 hour ago and they sound fabulous!

So the question is… Are this greenies original speakers in Ormat?

I tried to get rid of the black paint and it works… some chemical pile of poop and is gone… No problem with that.
Other than that it is almost in a mint condition.
Well, if you think you can get the get almost for nothing by buying it and selling the speakers..... Why not?

Part of me feels a bit sad that the original speakers would be removed, and that would definitely remove most of the resale value on your side too after that.

But if that rocks your boat..... It's a free world, innit? You're aren't hurting anyone doing that.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by bclaire » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:06 am

Orange used a number of different speakers over the years, and greenbacks could have been original.

If you like it, buy it - sell the greenbacks for as much as you can get - and then fit it with speakers you like. Vintage speakers are what they are - old. You never know when you might blow one and with new speakers you don't have to worry...

vitja
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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by vitja » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:18 am

Well, it looks like the speakers are not original.
Matamp usually used Fanes and Square magnet Eminences.

Or maybe someone ordered the cab with geenies.

In my opinion, G12H is just much better fit. It has more headroom. Greenbacks just don't produce that bottom end. They just get really compressed and muddy.

I'm not a vintage collector. I'm just searching for perfect match to my Or120. Soundwise and also to look great together.

And at the same time, I don't won't to destroy good old speakers just because they are in this cab.

So, the plan for now is:

Put the Blackbacks inside Ormat, and get extra 2x12 Orange Cab with V30 or if I'm lucky, get another 4x12 that is rated at 120watts.
73's OR120 w/master volume, 69 Orange - Matamp 4x12 w/Celestion G12H Blackbacks, Acoustic G100T, Ampeg V4 cab, early Marshall JCM 800 cab, Hohner Orgaphon 41, 73 Ibanez Les Paul Custom, Gibson Blues Hawk, Ibanez John Scofield...

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Re: Orange Matamp vintage 4x12 (price???)

Post by Gladmarr » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:36 pm

vitja wrote:Well, it looks like the speakers are not original.
Matamp usually used Fanes and Square magnet Eminences.
Square back eminence would've only been in US Orange cabinets. They shipped thecabs empty and loaded them in the states to save shipping weight.

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