Old Orange roll call

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Gorgar
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by Gorgar » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:01 am

Image

I think this is a 90s OR80 converted to an OR120. I would be one of those guys that doesn't know what it sounds like cranked. There's a 12AY7 in it for clean headroom as a bass amp. I run it with the FAC set all the way left, bass cranked, treble zeroed, hf drive cranked. It sounds crisp and tight at low volumes through an SWR 2x15 cab for both bass and guitar. I've just recently started using it as a guitar amp at home, and so far it likes fuzzface clones, rangemaster clones, and the Catalinbread Katzenkoenig, all on guitars with passive humbuckers. I don't use a boost, in fact on guitar I'm using a volume pedal so I can keep the gain higher without getting too loud. Still clean though.

I really like the sound of it as I use it, but I'm going to have to hook it up to an attenuator and see what it does when it's cranked.

ironlung40
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by ironlung40 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:15 pm

Great reply 5-8-10.

You described exactly what I have noted when trying to use pedals with my OR120. Most thin it out and almost sound like they are actually choking it out.
The best luck I have had with the limited amount of pedals I have been able to try was with the Fulltone Bass Drive (ran only in comp-cut mode as a boost), MXR Microamp, John Mcneece made Color sound overdrive clone (this is a great pedal. got to tweak it and change a lot with your amp settings, but it works), Black Arts Toneworks Pharoah fuzz (in the neutral non diode clipping mode), fulltone ocd.

The amp in my signature picture is my OR120 1974 model. The great electronics tech and Orange and Matamp enthusiast John Mcneece added his designed master volume mod to it for me. He used the slave out on the back, so it's reversible with no damage. It is a great master volume mod. He tweaked on it for a day or so and came up with the best sounding MV for that circuit that he could. It sounds very meaty and thick/full at low levels surprisingly. Much, much improved over the stock mv on the overdrive series.

I also have a later 70's overdrive 120 model. That is the one in the closet. I first used it to a/b to the master volume added to my OR120. This amp has not been played in a long while and needed a retube that last I used it. It probably also needs the capacitors checked, and had a very sticky FAC knob on it. I probably need to source a FAC selector switch/pot. Do you know of any?

Oh, and thanks for the heads up on working on these amps. It is seemingly hard to find people that understand the circuit well enough to not try and treat them like marshalls or fenders. Where are you located, as shipping sure has gotten a lot more expensive in the last few years?
Last edited by ironlung40 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ironlung40
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adkguy07
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by adkguy07 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:45 pm

"At cold settings, it's brutally jagged, very toothy, and has a very prickly texture to it, with great clarity but very abrupt transition into breakup. At hot settings, the amp gets warmer, the jagged character smooths out a bit and yields to more of the Orange "fog". Clarity and detail go south a bit, but it get a very unique warm, dark, "foggy" tone. There are fans of both sides of this spectrum of the amp's tone. I like them both, but prefer it on the colder side.

I hope that clears things up a bit."

Very interesting post from fiveightandten on those OR80 and 120 models. I learned quite a bit from reading it all. Would the last part be more or less true for ALL Orange Tube amps? By your term "Orange Fog"; I take that it means that when warmed up sufficiently, the dividing line between what we'd call "clean" and "grainy" gets blurred and that in itself is what Orange affiacandos like.

I don't own an Orange tube amp, hope to at some point in time. I do however, have their Micro Dark and granted it's
20 watts and a hybrid and not in the same league even. When that single preamp tube gets warmed up, I do notice something of that"fog" you write of. I guess that the effect would be even more noticeable if the Micro Darks' power stage were tube and not solid state. Would this a true statement?

adkguy07

fiveightandten
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by fiveightandten » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:41 pm

ironlung40 wrote:Great reply 5-8-10.

You described exactly what I have noted when trying to use pedals with my OR120. Most thin it out and almost sound like they are actually choking it out.
The best luck I have had with the limited amount of pedals I have been able to try was with the Fulltone Bass Drive (ran only in comp-cut mode as a boost), MXR Microamp, John Mcneece made Color sound overdrive clone (this is a great pedal. got to tweak it and change a lot with your amp settings, but it works), Black Arts Toneworks Pharoah fuzz (in the neutral non diode clipping mode), fulltone ocd.

The amp in my signature picture is my OR120 1974 model. The great electronics tech and Orange and Matamp enthusiast John Mcneece added his designed master volume mod to it for me. He used the slave out on the back, so it's reversible with no damage. It is a great master volume mod. He tweaked on it for a day or so and came up with the best sounding MV for that circuit that he could. It sounds very meaty and thick/full at low levels surprisingly. Much, much improved over the stock mv on the overdrive series.

I also have a later 70's overdrive 120 model. That is the one in the closet. I first used it to a/b to the master volume added to my OR120. This amp has not been played in a long while and needed a retube that last I used it. It probably also needs the capacitors checked, and had a very sticky FAC knob on it. I probably need to source a FAC selector switch/pot. Do you know of any?

Oh, and thanks for the heads up on working on these amps. It is seemingly hard to find people that understand the circuit well enough to not try and treat them like marshalls or fenders. Where are you located, as shipping sure has gotten a lot more expensive in the last few years?
Nice, it sounds like you have a good thing going on with the '74. The master volume in these amps was an afterthought, and to have someone spend time tweaking a PPIMV circuit for the amp probably made a big difference. I've tried a few different circuits and tweaked the values, but I never could get a MV that I really liked. I have a variation of the OTR master in my GRO now, and I think it works better than the Overdrive MV. The amp still needs to be turned up to sound good though.

If the amp has been sitting for a while, the caps often get cranky. It's not a bad idea to have a tech bring it up on a variac if it's been dormant for a period of years. You could always just turn it on. When I got my GRO100, it had been sitting for many years. The caps were barely working when I turned it on. The amp had terrible hum and at high volume, the voltage swing was causing crazy volume swells. After 20 minutes of play time, it was like new again. I replaced the caps for good measure a few weeks later.

For the FAC knob, any properly sized rotary switch will work as long as it has enough positions. Most of them have a ring with a stopper on it that lets you limit the travel, so you can buy a 10 position switch and still use it if you needed to. This 6 position would work:

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/s ... -shaft-mbb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That being said, your 70's FAC knob is likely not a sealed unit, so it may be possible to clean it up with some Deoxit and make it function properly again.

I'm located in Wallingford, CT 06492. Shipping amps is more expensive than it used to be, for sure. I just shipped an amp in a road case (75 lbs, 31x14x14) and it was about $60 each way to Indiana. If you have a good tech local to you, hang on to him. Shipping is expensive and carries risk with it. Amps can get damaged in transit, or even worse.
adkguy07 wrote: Very interesting post from fiveightandten on those OR80 and 120 models. I learned quite a bit from reading it all. Would the last part be more or less true for ALL Orange Tube amps? By your term "Orange Fog"; I take that it means that when warmed up sufficiently, the dividing line between what we'd call "clean" and "grainy" gets blurred and that in itself is what Orange affiacandos like.

I don't own an Orange tube amp, hope to at some point in time. I do however, have their Micro Dark and granted it's
20 watts and a hybrid and not in the same league even. When that single preamp tube gets warmed up, I do notice something of that"fog" you write of. I guess that the effect would be even more noticeable if the Micro Darks' power stage were tube and not solid state. Would this a true statement?

adkguy07
The "fog" is a descriptor that has been around for a long time. It pre-dates any of the modern Oranges. It may mean different things to people who play the newer amps, but to me those don't have the foggy quality. It's the combination of the fuzzy, prickly character, and the very prominent midrange that the old amps have. When the amp distorts, there's a blurring of the notes that rides on top of the sound. The amp has clarity of note definition and blurry fuzzy overtones at the same time. It's a sort of fog of sound.

It's tough to describe if you haven't heard it. I just looked through youtube to find some sound clips that capture this, and it's tough to find an example of it, as the amps are loud and there are a lot of OR-120 clips that just sound like the microphone being saturated. :lol: I'll see if I can plug one of mine in sometime soon and get some clips or video.

In the meantime, to me, this has always been a good example of the "jagged" OR-120/80 overdrive. (It should start at 2:27 when the guitars are solo'd so you can hear it.

https://youtu.be/lESbn_HGh4Y?t=147" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-Nick
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bclaire
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by bclaire » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:29 pm

Gorgar wrote:Image

I think this is a 90s OR80 converted to an OR120. I would be one of those guys that doesn't know what it sounds like cranked. There's a 12AY7 in it for clean headroom as a bass amp. I run it with the FAC set all the way left, bass cranked, treble zeroed, hf drive cranked. It sounds crisp and tight at low volumes through an SWR 2x15 cab for both bass and guitar. I've just recently started using it as a guitar amp at home, and so far it likes fuzzface clones, rangemaster clones, and the Catalinbread Katzenkoenig, all on guitars with passive humbuckers. I don't use a boost, in fact on guitar I'm using a volume pedal so I can keep the gain higher without getting too loud. Still clean though.

I really like the sound of it as I use it, but I'm going to have to hook it up to an attenuator and see what it does when it's cranked.
Just going by the graphics, it looks 70's not 90's to me...

ironlung40
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by ironlung40 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:35 pm

bclaire wrote:
Gorgar wrote:Image

I think this is a 90s OR80 converted to an OR120. I would be one of those guys that doesn't know what it sounds like cranked. There's a 12AY7 in it for clean headroom as a bass amp. I run it with the FAC set all the way left, bass cranked, treble zeroed, hf drive cranked. It sounds crisp and tight at low volumes through an SWR 2x15 cab for both bass and guitar. I've just recently started using it as a guitar amp at home, and so far it likes fuzzface clones, rangemaster clones, and the Catalinbread Katzenkoenig, all on guitars with passive humbuckers. I don't use a boost, in fact on guitar I'm using a volume pedal so I can keep the gain higher without getting too loud. Still clean though.

I really like the sound of it as I use it, but I'm going to have to hook it up to an attenuator and see what it does when it's cranked.
Just going by the graphics, it looks 70's not 90's to me...
Hey Billy,

Do you have a link to that picture that showed the differences between the 70's and 90's graphics. That picture has circulated on here a few times.
Sincerely,
Ironlung40
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Gorgar
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by Gorgar » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm

I found it in another thread.

Image

Based on that, mine's a 90s reissue. FAC squiggle starts at the bottom, send and return are labelled in lower case.

I found that the effects loop works really well for my particular application. Since I'm not getting much if any preamp distortion, there's not so much need for me to put time-based effects in the loop, but the way it's mixed with the dry signal means I can blend non-transparent effects like the MXR Sub Machine. I used to use another amp for this, or a parallel signal chain, but it's a lot more robust to have it built into the amp. Now I can use my favorite signal-destroying fuzz at its beefiest least focused settings, still keep the edge of my original signal, and the suboctave comes through strong.

Suddenly, this is my new favorite amp.

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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by fiveightandten » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:05 am

Gorgar wrote: Based on that, mine's a 90s reissue. FAC squiggle starts at the bottom, send and return are labelled in lower case.

I found that the effects loop works really well for my particular application. Since I'm not getting much if any preamp distortion, there's not so much need for me to put time-based effects in the loop, but the way it's mixed with the dry signal means I can blend non-transparent effects like the MXR Sub Machine. I used to use another amp for this, or a parallel signal chain, but it's a lot more robust to have it built into the amp. Now I can use my favorite signal-destroying fuzz at its beefiest least focused settings, still keep the edge of my original signal, and the suboctave comes through strong.

Suddenly, this is my new favorite amp.
The "N" in Orange, the rings around the knobs, and the power lamp make your head look like a 70's head. Do you have any pictures of the back? I'd be surprised if it was a 90's model.
Image
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by bclaire » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:11 am

Gorgar wrote:Image

I think this is a 90s OR80 converted to an OR120. I would be one of those guys that doesn't know what it sounds like cranked. There's a 12AY7 in it for clean headroom as a bass amp. I run it with the FAC set all the way left, bass cranked, treble zeroed, hf drive cranked. It sounds crisp and tight at low volumes through an SWR 2x15 cab for both bass and guitar. I've just recently started using it as a guitar amp at home, and so far it likes fuzzface clones, rangemaster clones, and the Catalinbread Katzenkoenig, all on guitars with passive humbuckers. I don't use a boost, in fact on guitar I'm using a volume pedal so I can keep the gain higher without getting too loud. Still clean though.

I really like the sound of it as I use it, but I'm going to have to hook it up to an attenuator and see what it does when it's cranked.
By the way - is that an MXR Distortion II in the background? I used to have one of those - Johnny A., too.

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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by Hellavision » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:41 pm

Gorgar wrote:Based on that, mine's a 90s reissue. FAC squiggle starts at the bottom, send and return are labelled in lower case.
I just took a closer look at my '76 OR80 and it looks just like yours. Lower case lettering on send and return + squiggly line starts on the bottom... So I guess yours could be from the '70s...

The 90s reissue shown here: http://www.orangefieldguide.com/OFG_OR80H.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; seems to have the same logo as the Overdrive in the other picture and no rings around the FAC, HF drive and Gain knobs.

Gorgar
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by Gorgar » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:14 am

Here's the back. Mine's an OR80 that was converted to a 120, they told me when I bought it. They never told me what year it was. Whichever version it is, it's a cool amp. It came without the backplate. Is there a source for replacements? I always worry about a cat poking his nose into the back because it's warm and getting a nasty surprise.

Image

Yes, that's an MXR Distortion II in the background of the original picture. I like MXR pedals quite a bit.

yossarian83
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by yossarian83 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:50 am

Judging by the vintage caps and the power cord that, my friend, is a 70's amp.

Gorgar
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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by Gorgar » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:33 am

Well, cool. Thanks, I didn't really ever know but was just going by what I saw on the net. I'm all for more robust transformers.

I love amps that do equally well with guitar and bass, since I play both.

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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by jontheid » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:48 pm

Definitely a 70s amp.
There's something not right about your impedance selector though.
If your amp was an OR80 conveted to OR120 by adding the 2 extra power tubes (and keeping the same output transformer, as this was common to OR80s and OR120s on the vast majority of 70s amps) then your impedance selector should look like this now:

Image

There shouldn't be a 2 Ohm selection, and there should be a 16 Ohm.
I'd get a tech to check this out, as you might be always on the incorrect selection for your cab, so you wouldn't be getting the most power out of your amp and you'd be making the output tubes work harder than they needed too.

Cheers,
Jon

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Re: Old Orange roll call

Post by fiveightandten » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:28 pm

Gorgar wrote:Here's the back. Mine's an OR80 that was converted to a 120, they told me when I bought it. They never told me what year it was. Whichever version it is, it's a cool amp. It came without the backplate. Is there a source for replacements? I always worry about a cat poking his nose into the back because it's warm and getting a nasty surprise.

Yes, that's an MXR Distortion II in the background of the original picture. I like MXR pedals quite a bit.
My god your pictures are huge. :lol:

Yes, that's definitely a 70's amp. Most likely 1973. And Jon is right about the impedance selector. Get that checked out. If you post a picture of the guts of the chassis (and a clear one of the output transformer wiring), we can probably tell you what's going on with it. But it shouldn't have a 2 ohm position if the output transformer is stock.

You can see how it originally had positions for 16 and 8 ohms (typical for this amp), and someone added the 2 and 4 ohm positions. It's possible that the output transformer has been replaced and this is correct. But if the amp is stock, that's most likely wrong.

-Nick
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