Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

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onetracker
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Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by onetracker » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:35 pm

Greetings -

I love the R30 with the various cabinets I have but when I compare it to let's say, my fuchs or pro reverb it sounds pretty dark (of course...different amps!). I'm wondering if that amp was not voiced/designed for a vintage 30 bite to bring out its real snarl and more midrange detail. I'm afraid to shell out $$$ for v30's and then hate 'em. love to hear your opinions.

so I'm in the market for 2 speakers to install in a diagonal 2x12. I would really appreciate hearing what you have chosen for your R30 and perhaps others that you have tried and why they didn't work for you.
Rock on!

OT
what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof

Mystic38
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by Mystic38 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:53 pm

on the topic of speakers...

What speakers ARE you using?.. its only based on that can anyone give a solid view as it depends on what you are looking for and what you have for comparison..

Here is my story..
I have the R30C that came with a V30, that currently has a V-Type, and today (hopefully) will have a G12H30 instead.. Why?..
Well, the V30 in that combo to me was a little too forward for my tastes.. the V type is more "polite" and a little smoother.. at the expense of a little brash forwardness and punch.. a more flexible speaker for the combo i think, and i suspect the G12H may make it even more versatile.. but who knows?

I also have the R30 head.
With the PPC212CB and V30 it packs a solid whack and is nicely balanced, with the PPC212OB (diagonal) V30 is sounds more midrangey, alive and open, but without the gut punch and smoothness in the low end.
I also have a Germino 212 OB with Greenbacks and thats smoother, a little step towards classic rock tone and also sounds really good.. just different.. (in exactly the same way as playing a Marshall through V30 Vs GB moves the tone, just in reverse.



Heres, the rub.. No matter what you do with speakers the R30 won't sound like a Fender.. Fenders are typified by that mid range scoop that Orange simply doesnt have..

However, the Rocker 30 can make a passable impression of a fender response on clean channel with an EQ pedal that has a 5dB cut centered around 550Hz or so.. if its an open back cab then also add a few dB (depending on guitar) at 100Hz and (depending on pup) a few dB around 5kHz.. . If you do this, note that ya may want to turn the EQ off when using the dirty channel as you lose the entire Orange dirt feel with that response...
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

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apocalypsedude
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by apocalypsedude » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:05 pm

I run V30s, never had a problem with my Rocker 30 being too dark, that baby cuts like a knife in a band mix. WGS (Warehouse Guitar Speakers) has a cheaper option , the Veteran 30, costs about half what the Celestions do, and the midrange spike is supposed to be tamed a bit. I've also had good luck with the WGS ET65 paired with a Vintage 30 in a 2x12, which is a pairing that WGS recommends. ET65 is a nice balanced speaker.

WGS makes high quality speakers, don't be hesitant just because the name isn't EV, Celestion, Jensen or Eminence.

I've also run my Rocker 30 head through borrowed backline cabs at shows that were the bog standard, run of the mill Marshall 1960s with the stock Celestion GT-75s which I normally hate when paired with Marshall heads (too harsh), but the Rocker sounded fantastic through those as well.
Orange Dual Dark 50
Rocker 30 head
Ceriatone 2555 (Marshall Silver Jubilee clone)
Framus 4x12 V30s
Fender Pro Jr.
LP Classic 2006
LP Standard 1993
'81 Greco, Japanese "lawsuit" LP Custom
SG Standard 1992

onetracker
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by onetracker » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:48 pm

good stuff. these are the experiences I am looking for.

just to clarify: I'm not trying to get my a to sound like a fender - it's just that when I toggle back and forth between them the contrast is pretty striking. (of course, they're different amps)

right now I'm running it thru a 2x12 with wgs et-65' which sound excellent, and an EVM12, also excellent. also have 2 vintage altec 417's too. I'm considering pairing the EVM and calling it done, but I just wanted to get a few more opinions about the V30 and who is really happy with that.

cheers

OT
what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:45 pm

I really do love the V30s.

Great speaker IMO.
But yeah, the R30 is a darkish box of filth. I like that. :mrgreen:
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Boy_Narf
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by Boy_Narf » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:14 pm

Ran my R30 and TT through a pair of Cannibis Rex speakers for a while. Now those things are dark!

I found a set of used V30's for nearly 50% off and couldn't resist. First note I played with the new speakers made me smile. The upside of V30's being so popular is that they are almost always for sale second hand. Right after I bought my pair, another four popped up. Just keep an eye out.

Where I always run into trouble is when I compare amps from different brands. Took my R30C to a friends house for a jam once, and his Blues Jr, demolished the R30C natural channel. I thought it sounded amazing before that day. Now to me it will always sound a bit sterile as my brain remembers the comparison. What I would suggest is stop playing your amps back to back haha. This is one of the big reasons I don't play guitars, or amps in the shop. If I hear something that sounds better, I'll want it. I'm pretty sure if I started comparing amps I would find something that sounds better than the R30 for the music I play. Heck it's supposed to be a classic rock amp, and I'm using it for modern progressive. Pretty sure if I put it up against a Rectrumfrier, or a modern Marshall, I would be taking one of those home.

Orange amps IME are quite dark compared to other brands. Doesn't help that the R30 EQ is merely a suggestion as opposed to having any real control. I was unhappy with the amp when I first got it, that is until I cranked all three bands to 3'oclock. Now it just rips! With that darkness however, comes a fuzzy thickness in the low mid range that other companies have trouble replicating. Now is your amp too dark in a mix? Or just too dark in comparison? Perhaps an EQ pedal would help it get closer to your other amps. Changing the speaker is pretty much just changing the EQ curve of the very last piece in your chain. Perhaps you could set your other amps darker, as I'm guessing they have a better EQ stack.

P.S. I have a home built 112 with a Veteran 30. Sounds great, and they did remove that upper mid spike. I am curious though if the speaker will cut as well live. Haven't had a chance to try it out.
TT | TTC | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

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onetracker
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by onetracker » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:04 pm

great stuff. great advice.

one more thing I neglected to ask is whether any of you R30 owners prefer open or closed back? my cabs are convertible and that just adds another factor in the equation.

OT
what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof

Boy_Narf
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by Boy_Narf » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:20 pm

My OB212 isn't done yet, but I much prefer the open back combo, to running it through a closed back cab.
TT | TTC | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

PedalTrain2 | Zuma

GLXD16 | Decimate | FlashBackMini | ST1 | TimeLine | BlueSky | RangIII | DMC3XL | EX-50

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onetracker
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by onetracker » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:06 am

Boy_Narf wrote:My OB212 isn't done yet, but I much prefer the open back combo, to running it through a closed back cab.
same
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misterfolkertsma
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by misterfolkertsma » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:11 pm

I like the V30 in the combo for home-use, it's a harmonically rich sounding speaker for low volumes. But in a band I prefer something smoother and thicker. I don't have the problem of not cutting through, playing in a trio.

onetracker
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by onetracker » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:51 pm

Boy_Narf wrote:
Where I always run into trouble is when I compare amps from different brands. Took my R30C to a friends house for a jam once, and his Blues Jr, demolished the R30C natural channel. I thought it sounded amazing before that day. Now to me it will always sound a bit sterile as my brain remembers the comparison. What I would suggest is stop playing your amps back to back haha. This is one of the big reasons I don't play guitars, or amps in the shop. If I hear something that sounds better, I'll want it. I'm pretty sure if I started comparing amps I would find something that sounds better than the R30 for the music I play. Heck it's supposed to be a classic rock amp, and I'm using it for modern progressive. Pretty sure if I put it up against a Rectrumfrier, or a modern Marshall, I would be taking one of those home.
this is so true. for the last week or so I've been rehearsing (trio) with the R30 and 2x12 with the back closed. at first I didn't like it as much as open back and now that my ears have adjusted it sounds freekin' fantastic. sometimes I just feel that there too many variables to even care. i'll probably just get a pair of vet 30's and call it done.
what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof

Mystic38
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by Mystic38 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:09 pm

Too funny.. it was after i got the R30 combo that the Blues Jr went up for sale !
Boy_Narf wrote:Took my R30C to a friends house for a jam once, and his Blues Jr, demolished the R30C natural channel. .
Yeah the EQ is its own thing... :lol:

big fan as stated on an eq pedal.. helps a ton on the natural channel and allows the dirty channel to move more towards a Marshall sound if (gasp) thats what you want.
Boy_Narf wrote: Doesn't help that the R30 EQ is merely a suggestion as opposed to having any real control. I was unhappy with the amp when I first got it, that is until I cranked all three bands to 3'oclock. Now it just rips! With that darkness however, comes a fuzzy thickness in the low mid range that other companies have trouble replicating. Now is your amp too dark in a mix? Or just too dark in comparison? Perhaps an EQ pedal would help it get closer to your other amps. Changing the speaker is pretty much just changing the EQ curve of the very last piece in your chain. Perhaps you could set your other amps darker, as I'm guessing they have a better EQ stack.

P.S. I have a home built 112 with a Veteran 30. Sounds great, and they did remove that upper mid spike. I am curious though if the speaker will cut as well live. Haven't had a chance to try it out.
Hear good things about the Vet 30.. perhaps its more like the V type?.. as that is the "slightly more polite" V30 from Celestion, but clearly cheaper.
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

Mystic38
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by Mystic38 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:12 pm

have both with V30 and both are great..just different.

Personally i feel that the OB projects better (more mids, sounds more aggressive) and would sit better in a mix for playing out..unless you are in 7 string chunky chunk territory then it would be the CB all the way. The CB sounds more balanced/smoother to my ears.

The CB also weighs a cow.
onetracker wrote:great stuff. great advice.

one more thing I neglected to ask is whether any of you R30 owners prefer open or closed back? my cabs are convertible and that just adds another factor in the equation.

OT
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

Beexter
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by Beexter » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:56 pm

I run my Rocker 30 Head through an oversize 1x12 cab (MJW) fitted with an Eminence Wizard speaker. Sounds perfect to me and loud as......

When playing my guitars through the natural channel, I've tried a variety of EQ type pedals (including VFE Rocket, Voodoo Labs Giggity) to give me a bit of tone flexibility but always prefer the sound of the Natural Channel as it is, without any colouration.

I think the Wizard is a great pairing with the Rocker.

onetracker
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Re: Rocker 30 speaker analysis paralysis

Post by onetracker » Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:26 pm

Beexter wrote:I run my Rocker 30 Head through an oversize 1x12 cab (MJW) fitted with an Eminence Wizard speaker. Sounds perfect to me and loud as......

When playing my guitars through the natural channel, I've tried a variety of EQ type pedals (including VFE Rocket, Voodoo Labs Giggity) to give me a bit of tone flexibility but always prefer the sound of the Natural Channel as it is, without any colouration.

I think the Wizard is a great pairing with the Rocker.
never heard the wizard. sounds great. thanks.
what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof

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