OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

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Boy_Narf
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OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Boy_Narf » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:00 pm

Hello Everyone :D

Alright so, I do a dual amp thing, and say I'm ripping on a lovely dirt tone and then hit the ending chord for that section. I need a way to hang onto that chord, then fade it out. Typically as soon as I do that I'm over to the clean side and the looper. I've tried to do this with the looper, which works, but is tricky.

Hit dirty chord, start the loop, wait a few seconds, playback the loop, switch to clean channel, start on the clean riff, fade out the loop with my exp pedal, stop the loop, clear the loop, set the exp pedal back to full volume, start the clean loop.

As you can see it's a lot of work to fade the dirty signal. Of course this all has to take place in the space of a single measure or my loops will be running extra long, not to mention the fact that playing while pressing all that stuff tricky to say the least.

So I need a pedal in my dirt chain after the looper that will fade out the dirt signal.

- EHX freeze was the first pedal I looked into but only does a max of 3.2 seconds of fade. I need closer to 10 seconds for smooth transitions between parts.
- EHX 720 looper has a fade feature, but it's a big pedal. I need something fairly compact.
- I already have the FlashBack mini, and figured I could use a HOF mini to hang onto the sound and trail off. Neither pedal have buffered bypass, so they can't do the Trails/tails thing. Lots of delay pedals have this feature, but they are all standard size. I need something very small.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
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misterfolkertsma
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by misterfolkertsma » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:24 am


Boy_Narf
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:30 am

Too big. And I don't think it samples and fades. Just fades in and out whatever you are playing.
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Jondog » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:35 am

Maybe you're over complicating things? I don't know what you're playing, but maybe you need to rearrange it to something that works easier? Like maybe have your dirt sound on a delay that carries on into self oscillation that you can eventually click off or fade out while you start your clean underneath the oscillations.
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Gladmarr » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:25 am

If I were in your shoes, I would use a delay with a ducking feature so the repeats are below your playing level while you're playing but then get louder after you've switched channels. It looks like TRex and Seymour Duncan make pedals that will do that, but I've never tried either one.

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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:10 am

Ducking delay is an interesting idea, but being on all the time is not an option.

So I'm trying to be two guitar players at the same time. The RangIII is doing a wicked job! Best piece of gear I've ever bought. My pedalboard is split into two chains. A clean side with delay and verb, and a dry dirt side. Both chains go into the RangIII as a last stop and then into two seperate amps.

There are many times when I'm playing a dirt part and want it to fade out on the dirty amp, while switching over to the clean amp and playing the next section. Having the dirt side fade into silence, then switching the amp and starting the clean part is too jarring. What I need is a EHX Freeze, or a Looper at the very end of the dirt side, running into that darth fader pedal. Then I could get a sample of the final chord, and fade it out with only one click. I'm trying to find this in a single small form factor pedal.

My idea right now is to use another Flashback mini set to a very long decay. After hitting the last chord, I can enable the FB mini, and switch over to clean. As there is no sound going through the dirt side when I'm on the clean side, it should decay to silence, or else pickup hissing from the amp and go crazy. hmm.

Ideally the EHX 720 looper would be perfect. It has a fade feature, but it's a pretty big pedal. Actually wait... oh I just had an idea. Stay tuned,.
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Les Paul Lover
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:53 am

What about a sustainer? That should be able to keep your signal going for longer?
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misterfolkertsma
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by misterfolkertsma » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:19 pm

What's a bit of extra size when it can get you where you want to be?

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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Jondog » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:50 pm

Coopersonic Fader too. Small footprint, 1/2 to 40 seconds of fade and in or out.
http://coopersonic.bigcartel.com/produc ... ader-pedal
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:15 pm

Don't want to get a bigger board, so I'm stuck looking for something smaller.

The coopersonic is cool, but I need something that holds a sample, and then fades. This coupled with the freeze, or a small looper would do the trick, but too much real estate.

A sustainer is an interesting idea. Let me do some digging.
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Boy_Narf » Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Alright got it sorted I think.

I hooked up an old stereo delay pedal at lunch and it worked great. I can hit a final chord on the dirt side, kick on the delay, then kick it off, allowing the trails setting to take over. Then I can swap over to my clean side while the dirt sound is fading out. Did some pedal research and found that the TC Flashback is pretty much the only one that fits the bill. Compact, proper stereo, spill over feature. Only issue is if I want to get crazy with the repeats it doesn't do the oscillation thing, not a huge deal.

***I'm not using my old delay pedal for this because it's a Damage Control TimeLine. Beyond massive.***

Option two, is to go ahead with the 720 looper. If I remove the patch bay from my board I should be able to get the 720 to fit. May have an inch hanging off the side but shouldn't be an issue. Can take a sample of the dirty chord, then fade out with the second foot switch.

Now deciding between the two. Using a delay pedal creates a much more pleasant wash. After the max sample is reached it records again and blends together very well. The looper option on the other hand starts and stops at that button press, and it's easier to hear the "split" in the audio.

Well I was worried about power as the 720 comes with a 200ma adapter, but VooDooLabs says it only needs 75ma, where the FB requires 100ma.
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Gladmarr » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:00 am

This is what you need. https://youtu.be/iFqN7hPlIsk

Boy_Narf
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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Boy_Narf » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:12 am

Nah I need a fade out after I let go.

Anyhow, I went into L&M with the full intention of getting a Flashback. I then got to the counter and remembered how crappy TC support acted while not resolving an issue I had with the Ditto X4. So I did a few laps and noticed an even smaller stereo delay at the very bottom.

$30 cheaper, still has stereo, weighs twice as much, has all external controls... Any guesses? hahaha.

Instead of the FB, I got the Digitech Obscura. Build like the cliche tank, metal knobs, pretty hefty weight wise, trails option on the outside, even has a "freeze" feature. Played on it for about 30 mins when I got home and it sounds okay. The buffer is a bit noisy, but keeping the trails switch engaged keeps the bypassed and engaged signal at the same level of hiss. Few odd things to mention, aside from the hideous paint job, haha, Switching between delay modes takes about 3 seconds. If you have a delay going and switch modes, it mutes the signal then takes a few more seconds for the new sound to start. Also seems that with the repeats knob anywhere above 3 oclock, it doesn't take any input. This is apparently set like this so you can play a section, then crank the repeats knob, then play overtop while it repeats forever. Still need to do a bit of reading on this, as mine isn't behaving like the manual suggested. Difficult to find the threshold, as a touch past the "infinite" setting causes the repeats to go forever, but slightly below seems to have them gone after 10 seconds or so. Also the bottom left smaller pot is scratchy, so it takes the outer knob with it. Not a huge deal.

So what I wanted was a clean delay that would repeat forever. This pedal doesn't really do that. Even with the FX knob turned all the way down, you can still hear each delay trail fade into their designated effect. Analogue and tape in particular start to thin out after only a few repeats. So far Lo-Fi with the tone knob cranked seems to be the most accurate. The pedal also seems to have a decent boost at the output. I swapped my passive patch bay out for this, and my amps were painfully loud. Another plus is that it can go into oscillation. Apparently the FB can't do that without custom tone prints.

Anyhow, I still have the EHX 720 on order and it will be here on Monday. I can then do a shootout and decide if I want a delay, or a looper with fade to transition between my clean and dirt parts. Loser will get returned to the store, oh how sad.

Stay tuned for the next episode of, "what is the most complicated way to do something simple?".
TT | TTC | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

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Re: OT: Fade out one amp while playing through the other?

Post by Boy_Narf » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:43 pm

WHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHYWHY?????????

So the EHX720 just came in. Plugged it in and PERFECT! The exact functionality I need...

Wait, what is the sound? HOLY HISSING! Unplug the pedal silence. Plug it in, slight hiss, followed by a ridiculous amount of hiss once the buffer kicks on. Gets even louder when playing back.

Seriously... :(

Ditto X4, Infinity Looper, and these new EHX loopers must all buy the same buffer parts, cause they are all ridiculously noisy. No wonder the Boomerang costs the same as a car. Well now I know. I need a looper that can fade, in a small foot print, with a high quality low noise buffer... It doesn't exist.

What I did notice however, is how quiet my rig actually is. The hiss is barely audible, and just a slight 40-60hz which seems to be a ground loop between my two amps. Hmm. If I turn one off and one on the humming stops. If I turn both on, the humming is back. Interesting. Sounds like a ground lift is in order.
TT | TTC | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

PedalTrain2 | Zuma

GLXD16 | Decimate | FlashBackMini | ST1 | TimeLine | BlueSky | RangIII | DMC3XL | EX-50

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