MKIII on the way!

[cddsix]

"These notches you describe, are they on all knobs?" Yes, the notches are on all the knobs...I have actually found something about them I really like, when are looking to make a quick adjustment it is convenient to put it on the next click, you don't have to really look to see the numbers you just feel the click. This could really come in handy in the dark!

I wouldn't say the MKIII sounds more 3d at lower volumes now than the OR15, but at lower volumes it sounds more like the OR15 than the MKII did IMO, which is what I was looking for. At whisper quiet volumes the OR15 I think still has the lead, but the MKIII makes up for it with versatility with the attenuator and reverb etc.

[Les Paul Lover]

Interesting. I can see hoe these notched pots could be both very useful and very irritating. How many notches do they have?

Is it possible at all to stay in between notches ?

[cddsix]

I think there is roughly a notch for each incremental black dash on the faceplate. The notches don't align perfectly with the black dashes.

It is no problem to set it between the notches and have it stay, but it takes a moment longer than usual to try and balance it between two notches.

I have decided I like, I always play in low light conditions, which made it hard to see the little white dots on the knobs to make an adjustment. With the notches I don't have to see anything I just reach out and turn it to the next notch. I do think it would have been useful though if they had been able to make twice as many notches or clicks, because there seems to be too much distance between them. For example going from one notch to the next on the master volume gives quite a bit of jump in volume.

Did I mention I love the sound of the amp? Best sounding gain channel I have ever experienced on any amp.

[a.hun]

21...
(http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... es#p641071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
...running from 07:00 to 17:00 every half hour. Yes the clicks correspond exactly to the number of lines / dots around the knobs. You could always try realigning the knobs if you wanted them totally spot on. Mine are 'close enough for jazz', or rock, or whatever your preferred poison is.
(http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54057" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

They are fine, I actually reallydo like this 'daft' idea from Orange. Okay I wish the first couple of clicks also did things, but no biggie.

No, the 'in-between' thing is a non starter for me because the detents are lightly sprung and the knob just tends move to the nearest one. Couldn't be bothered with that, but really not needed though, not if you know how to control things properly from your guitar / bass anyway. And that is something I'd always suggest doing for getting the very best sounds out of any rig.
(http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... 27#p320559" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
They just give you TONS of different (but repeatable) starting point combinations, which are are all then fine tweakable from the instrument, or by punching in or out other pedals if you prefer.

Like most of the best things in life the RV Mk.III / BBg pedal aren't 'programmable' for different pre-set versions of bliss. (Only Billy collects programmable Oranges I think, and then he sends them back to Orange anyway!) This really is the next best thing to that sort of 'one touch' recall though. Near endless fun to be had with some very different sounds, and how hard is it to note down (or learn) a few favourite clock combinations if you want to? Much easier than guessing it with normal pots which I'm sure is what a lot of people do anyway. Personally I pretty much just play it by ear every time, and it is in many ways much easier to make choices when you have a limited number of them. You don't need to spend hours fine tweaking things, each click is audibly different so audibly closer or further away from your target. Just a few clicks to zone in on the best combinations and you are done and can get on with actually making some music.

Typical bit of Orange 'different thinking', and as usual it works. Very clever thinking I'd say!


Andy.

[cddsix]

all right so tonight I started to get frustrated with the notch knob thing on the Master Volume. There are only two usable notches in the whole zero to 9am range, and each one has a substantial jump in volume. This would be really nice to have some fine-tune ability on this one.
I just really noticed this tonight as I was unable to get from one notch to the next on the master volume without it becoming unacceptably loud for late night jamming. I can engage the attenuator to suppress the jump but I have to put the attenuator on almost full to suppress this notch jump, which kills the dynamics a bit, not how I was wanting to run the amp at home.

Also on the Preamp gain, there are only a couple notches in the noon to 3pm range, which IMO is not enough.

I don't have a problem on the smaller eq knobs, but on the bigger knobs like volume and preamp, I am not digging this lack of fine-tune ability.

I hate to say anything to deter someone about this feature, but this feature really did come as a surprise to me, it is not listed in the features of the amp on the websites where it is selling.

[Les Paul Lover]

That was mynonly reserve about this notched pots. Fine for Eq and probably dirty channel volume, but the jump in volume is huge at low volume on the clean channel, and the dirty channel gain control, with it being a 4 gain stages amp, can be pretty abrupt between gain stages.

If it really us an issue, replacing the potentiometers for regular should be a very easy job (I assume they aren't soldered to the pcb?), buy annoying to have to do that to get your brand new amp the way you like it.

[cddsix]

I did consider that, thinking it would be easy to replace those two, but I don't know how to do it, nor what kind of parts to source. And to pay a tech for that seems like kind of throwing money away, not to mention it might affect the sound if they use the wrong type of pot etc.

Does anyone know if the DualDark's have this same notched thing going on with all the knobs? I opted for the RV because I love reverb, but I may re-consider the DualDark.

[thejay]

I can understand the issue with the notches, took me by surprise as well. What cabinet are you running the head into? If I want to play at a real low volume I use a custom 212OB with Greenbacks.

I have been eyeing up the DD as well but I can not speak if there are notches on the pots. There are not on the OR100... If I unload my MKII I will most likely pick up a DD.

[a.hun]

AFAIK the notches are only on the RV Mk.3 and the BBg pedal (so far anyway).


Andy.

[Rozz]

I don't want to throw the thread, but just curious. Are the controls detents because they feed a different resistor per detent to perform a function? If it is, I guess potentiometer replacement would be difficult.

[Les Paul Lover]

I don't want to throw the thread, but just curious. Are the controls detents because they feed a different resistor per detent to perform a function? If it is, I guess potentiometer replacement would be difficult.

Indeed, though it didn't sound like they were rotary switches.

Edit:

And whilst rotary switches have their place in amps as overall voicing control, I don't see any advantage for them in volume control and standard EQ - though I could be surprised!!!!!

[cddsix]

The Master volume and preamp gain seem to me to be the worst suited for the detents IMO because on the master from say 7oclock to 9oclock it gains volume really quickly, so this is where I need more adjustment flexibility than the detents offer. And the same on the preamp gain, between noon and 3oclock is where the gain really starts jumping up quickly and finer increments are needed for me.

Next time I bias it I am going to have a look at the pots and see what kind of job it looks like to swap them.

[Les Paul Lover]

The Master volume and preamp gain seem to me to be the worst suited for the detents IMO because on the master from say 7oclock to 9oclock it gains volume really quickly, so this is where I need more adjustment flexibility than the detents offer. And the same on the preamp gain, between noon and 3oclock is where the gain really starts jumping up quickly and finer increments are needed for me.

Next time I bias it I am going to have a look at the pots and see what kind of job it looks like to swap them.

So long as they aren't pcb mounted, it should be a 3 wires job per pots. The values of the pots they used should be written underneath, and I reckon alpha pots should be perfect replacements, and I'm sure can be found in the exact same values.

How do the notched pots work on the reverb? I know on the MKI I have, with that crazy glorious cathedral reverb, small increment make big changes to start with, bit I know the MKIII is tamed down quite a bite, so the notches might not be a problem there.

[CAR-15]

I don't see the notches as a big deal at all. Never had an issue with trying to dial in the amount of anything I want! They are a total non-issue with me, I actually like them. In low light it makes it super-easy to feel exactly how much you are moving.

[a.hun]

I don't see the notches as a big deal at all. Never had an issue with trying to dial in the amount of anything I want! They are a total non-issue with me, I actually like them. In low light it makes it super-easy to feel exactly how much you are moving.

Good, glad that despite the slight reservations I've already mentioned I'm not the only one who gets them then!

I don't want to throw the thread, but just curious. Are the controls detents because they feed a different resistor per detent to perform a function? If it is, I guess potentiometer replacement would be difficult.

You didn't check those links I already put up then? If you had you'd have found out a bit more about them including the answer to that.

Hi Andy,

I got an answer from Orange:

Hello Michael,

That is normal. The pots are the same as the other pots used throughout our amps, apart from the addition the part in them which creates those notches. The actual electrically conductive track length the pot turns around inside itself is only approximately 24mm. Divide that into the 21 notches and there really isn't much space between each notch. At the extremes of the controls (fully up or fully down) it's very easy to find pots where very little happens between the first couple of notches. For example notch 1 on the volume control may be rather quiet and notch 2 can sound loud in comparison. This is also true of pots with no notches, however there is less attention drawn to what sound is coming out compared to specific points of the pot rotation. The notched pots were chosen by our designer to give the amp a different feel and are more of an aesthetic choice, rather than being chosen for specific functionality.

I hope this explains a lot. If you have any further questions I'll be happy to answer them.

Regards
--

On 26 Aug 2015, at 10:54, Michael Lansche wrote:

> Hello Robert,
>
> thank you for your answer.
>
> But shouldn't I hear sound when turning my attentuator 1 notch anticlockwise?
> I have to turn my attentuator 2 notches anticlockwise to hear sound.
> What about the first notch?
>
> Regards
> Michael Lansche

So in fact they are just normal pots with the addition (internally!) of a stepped mechanism to give the clicks. Now, I can honestly say that I have similar situations with several of my amps where the initial travel of the (standard) pots leads to sudden difficult to control jumps in gain or volume. So - though they don't help - it really isn't just down to the detents but to the nature of the rotary pots themselves and the circuits they are controlling. Don't go imagining that fitting standard pots will make everything perfectly smooth and controllable at the end of the pot taper - it probably won't!!!

Remember also that the RVs aren't primarily designed as low volume practice amps! They are basically big stage workhorses, so expecting total control at very low volume settings probably isn't being realistic. Though to be fair with the power switching and so called 'attenuator' functions they'll probably be better than many similarly powerful amps at lower settings.

I guess the choice to put these in may have been a nod to the 5 way rotary 'FAC' switches on the vintage OR amps. Those just switched in different capacitor values progressively to change the core tones and gain levels. (Which you could then fine adjust with the other controls!)
http://orangeampguide.atspace.com/FACknob.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Like the FAC the feel you get with the notched pots is of a switching network with a series of different settings, though with far more starting options and different possible combinations. Lots and lots of different 'zones' you could say.

I think you have to ask yourself how you really use your amp(s) in a real world performance situation. For me the answer (for either bass or guitar) is usually this: I set up the amp to let me easily get the range of sounds I'll be wanting, and then I'll pretty much leave it alone. So I'm not actually setting up 'one perfect amp sound' but aiming for a 'zone' which will allow me to get all the sounds I'll need.

We probably all go to gigs and watch others play, right? And see other guitarist (/bassists) using a whole range of different sounds? There are always exceptions but usually (almost always IME!) they'll do that not by adjusting the amp every single time but by changing something else, either on their instruments or with pedals. And we'll all have seen players with a simple setup, say a simple twin p/up guitar like a Tele and a single drive stomp box, who can get a whole range of very different sounds without ever going anywhere near the amp controls. How the h3ll do they do that then?

Already answered that with another of those links.

Yeah, I'd suggest getting used to using the controls on your guitar first, just like they did 'back in the old days'. Some of us still prefer it to just stomping on a box anyway...

Basically you use the volume on the guitar to control gain. Then you adjust the tone control to suit for any particular level of gain.

For cleaner sounds you probably want to open up the guitars tone control near full. When you go for more drive though, try backing it off a bit. It's a balancing act, but there is always a 'sweet spot' there between gain and tone. Generally the higher the gain, the more you have to back off the tone to find it.

Set the amp with enough treble so that it sounds good clean when you back off the guitars volume and open its tone control. That's when you'll probably need most treble from the amp. As you hike the guitars volume control for more gain you can always cut treble as required from the guitar. You'll find working this way opens up a whole spectrum of fantastic sounds to you and really is a great way to drive a simple but responsive valve amp.

Basically you just need to set up the amp for the maximum amount of gain you'll need BUT with enough treble for the cleanest sounds you'll need. Sure that'll be far too much treble for the higher gain sounds, but the answer is simply to back off the guitars tone control until you hit that 'sweet spot' where the drive sounds suddenly bloom out and really sing. When you go for cleaner sounds (by lowering the volume at the guitar) you can open up the tone control to suit. They put controls on guitars for very good reasons. They are there to let you get all the sounds you'll need without touching the amp at all - well handy!

But I'm not daft enough to imagine that everyone is going to suddenly play that way. And I'd also argue that for the people who just can't get to grips with that way of working, who insist on getting preset sounds by hitting footswitches, having those preset clicks is also very handy. It means that you can easily and repeatably set the amp to get the exact sounds you already had when you were setting up all your pedals. I don't work that way, preferring to set the amp sounds to suit the volume and the venue I'll be playing at. But for those who preset everything being able to reliably 'pre-set' the amp too has to be handy, right? So a win - win situation really.

Hopefully I'm also not the only one who gets that?


Andy.