Attenuator

[Slartibartfarst42]

I've been thinking of getting an attenuator for my amp so I can push it better without getting to a ridiculous volume. At the moment I can play a gig in a pub on just 7w and with the amp going through the PA for better control of the overall sound, I can't even get that loud enough for the best tone. Attenuators seem to be very expensive so does anyone have any recommendations that don't cost the earth. I'd like to get something for no more than £150, though I don't mind going used.

[Thinline_slim]

I'm assuming you are looking to attenuate the TH30 in your sig? Attenuation might be able to solve your problem but with "volume" you have two things going on, your amp being turned up AND your speakers are being pushed. If you're not able to turn up loud enough to push the speakers then an attenuator won't do you any good. If you feel the speakers are being pushed enough at the gig then the attenuator might do the trick although I would bet it's a combination of the two since I personally thing Orange makes an awesome master volume. FYI, I've found that I'm able to push my speakers loud enough (they are Eminence Reignmakers so I can dial it back a bit at the speaker) and to get a little more juice out of my OR50 I do use an attenuato to knock off another 3-6db.

So a couple of things to consider aside from an attenuator:
1.) Lower sensitivity speakers like Celestion G12Ms at 97db. You can push the amp and the speakers and they aren't as loud volume wise as say a Vintage 30.
2.) Adjustable sensitivity speakers ala Eminence Reignmakers or Mavericks. I don't know your speaker set up but I do have two Reignmakers loaded in my 2x12OB Orange. I think they are fantastic speakers.
3.) Something that can re-amp like the Bad Cat Unleash. I'd wager they will be more than your 150 pounds though.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Yes, it is my TH30 and it's going through an Orange 1X12 with a Vintage 30 in it. The speaker issue did cross my mind and is clearly another concern.

I may have found a used Dr Z attenuator but as you say, that doesn't solve the speaker issue

[Randy Bass]

I think it is only a matter of time before someone like Eminence or Celestion figures out that an inefficient speaker that sounds good would be a cheaper (and more popular) alternative to the FDM speakers like the Reignmaker for home use and small gigs. Home stereo speakers are inefficient, so it can't be that difficult to figure out.

I'm thinking a 90dB Vintage 30 variant would be a winner. Call it the Vintage 90 just to confuse things further.

[Thinline_slim]

Yes, it is my TH30 and it's going through an Orange 1X12 with a Vintage 30 in it. The speaker issue did cross my mind and is clearly another concern.

I may have found a used Dr Z attenuator but as you say, that doesn't solve the speaker issue

If you can give the Dr Z a try it may work out for you. I had one some time ago. I never really liked it with my Oranges as much as other amps but it might be just the ticket for you. Also, all of my Oranges are very vintage sounding.

I think it is only a matter of time before someone like Eminence or Celestion figures out that an inefficient speaker that sounds good would be a cheaper (and more popular) alternative to the FDM speakers like the Reignmaker for home use and small gigs. Home stereo speakers are inefficient, so it can't be that difficult to figure out.

I'm thinking a 90dB Vintage 30 variant would be a winner. Call it the Vintage 90 just to confuse things further.

One of the main reasons I ended up with 3 Reignmakers is I found a guy that would sell them to me for $105 ea. I do agree that awesome sounding 90-93db speakers would probably do well.

[Slartibartfarst42]

It seems to me that an attenuator can be a bit hit and miss as well as being very expensive so might a different speaker be a better solution? If I understand you correctly, it will mean I can turn my amp up further to drive it harder while maintaining a similar volume. If that is correct, what speakers might be good options that will retain the same middy characteristics as the Vintage 30 I have at the moment?

[Dunky]

I have a couple of attenuators ( Jim Kelly and Weber micro mass) and one amp with power scaling.
All work well to a point, both attenuators are supposedly able to use 16 and 8 ohm speakers but with both I've found 8 ohms sounds far more natural even at higher attenuation setting, really a huge difference.
Jim Kelley is expensive but you could pick a Weber up from e bay etc reasonably priced

[Thinline_slim]

It seems to me that an attenuator can be a bit hit and miss as well as being very expensive so might a different speaker be a better solution? If I understand you correctly, it will mean I can turn my amp up further to drive it harder while maintaining a similar volume. If that is correct, what speakers might be good options that will retain the same middy characteristics as the Vintage 30 I have at the moment?

If the Vintage 30 is a big part of your sound then I would say try to find an attenuator. All of the speakers with lower sensitivity will sound considerably different than the V30. If you have a chance to try your TH30 with a G12M "Green back" you might like the different flavor and get a lower db but it's a pretty big investment to not know if you'll like it. And I don't know of any store that will let you return a speaker. You might be able to find a bigger store that has an attenuator you can buy and take home to try and if you don't like it you could return it?

[a.hun]

Actually I'd say that with some speakers pushing them hard isn't an important part of the sound at all. Depends on the speakers, and yes sometimes (often) it is nice to get healthy speaker crunch going on. Speakers like G12M-25s and Alnico Blues are very rewarding that way. But with many other speakers (the V.30 certainly being one of them IMO!) speaker breakup just isn't a big part of their sound at all. The V.30 is actually very late to distort staying bold, tight and uncompressed even at higher volumes. And it will take a lot more power than they usually see in any standard Orange rig to get any significant driver break up. In a 1x12 they'll not be pushed hard by 30W or even 50W, let alone two or four of them with even a hundred watter. Most Orange owners won't have even heard speaker break up from their V.30s!!!

However the V.30 can also sound pretty good with low wattages IMO. (Thankfully, or AD30 combos would sound rubbish, which they don't!) I've seen and heard them fitted to plenty of different lower wattage amps too. The Cornford Harlequin 6W combo for example was a pretty nice wee amp which had one as standard! There are others out there too, reason being V.30s are both efficient and can sound decent without actually needing to be pushed.

Frankly I don't think there is a real speaker issue here, so I think an attenuator is a viable option. But yeah, not all attenuators sound equally good with all amps, and I can't personally speak for the Dr. Z with Oranges. THD Hotplate works pretty well for me as does my Koch Dummybox Home for heavier (living room level) attenuation.

I'm thinking a 90dB Vintage 30 variant would be a winner. Call it the Vintage 90 just to confuse things further.

Yeah, the V.30 is already so well named - not! (Not even vaguely 'vintage' sounding, not 30 watts!) Like your suggestion, hope Celestion don't steal it!

I agree though, it would be great to have some nice low efficiency speakers to choose from. Decent guitar drivers below about 96dB efficiency are rare (and I couldn't actually name any in the low '90s at all), so no, you'll not find a quieter V.30 sound-alike too quickly I doubt...


Andy.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Frankly I don't think there is a real speaker issue here, so I think an attenuator is a viable option. But yeah, not all attenuators sound equally good with all amps, and I can't personally speak for the Dr. Z with Oranges. THD Hotplate works pretty well for me as does my Koch Dummybox Home for heavier (living room level) attenuation.

That's really interesting and dovetails nicely with what I've been researching. For speakers, I was looking at an Eminence Reignmaker but I think you'd really have to be sold on the speaker itself over a V30 and I'm not so that's out. As far as attenuation is concerned, I pretty much have it narrowed down to two. One is a Weber Minimass that seems to work well with an Orange amp but I'd have to order it from America as it's not available here. The other one I was looking at was ironically the Koch Dummybox though I was less sure how well that worked as an attenuator.

[a.hun]

As far as attenuation is concerned, I pretty much have it narrowed down to two. One is a Weber Minimass that seems to work well with an Orange amp but I'd have to order it from America as it's not available here. The other one I was looking at was ironically the Koch Dummybox though I was less sure how well that worked as an attenuator.

Don't think either of the Dummybox versions, home or studio, would really be ideal live. They sound good to me but are really designed for pretty heavy attenuation, sending only 5%, 3% or 1% of the power to the speaker. In practical terms for me that means a little too loud, about right and a little too quiet for comfortable living room volume levels in my flat with a not too hard cranked 30W master volume amp allowing both cleans and drive sounds.

I say 'not too hard cranked' because I find you usually get the best results not by running an amp flat out but by balancing some attenuation with some volume reduction on master volume amps. You don't always have to thrash an amp to it's limits to get the very best sound - IMO at least.

If following that guideline the Weber should be fine. Though I'd tend not to run the amp full out for too long with it TBH. Despite their saying that fully cranked amps can put out up to 50% more than their clean power ratings I'd say with some amps it will actually be closer to double the clean rating. Having said that I always tend to err on the side of caution myself - it'd very likely be just fine.


Andy.

[Janglin_Jack]

I had a Marshall JTM45 and ran it through a 2x12 with a V30 and G12H30. I needed an antrenuator to knock the volume down with band to get the right amount of amp distortion I was looking for. I changed to the Heritage G12M Greenbacks and the amp was perfect with no attenuator. The lower efficiency Heritage greenbacks took the volume down into the sweet spot.

Since then I have built many other amps and several Marshalls that I installed a Post Phase Inverter Master Volume. It is cheap and very effective. I would suggest looking into that mod, but if you don't have any amp modification experience, lower efficiency speakers or an attenuator is the way to go.

Good luck,
Mike

[Slartibartfarst42]

As I'm in the UK I don't generally shop there, though I noticed they were also on offer at Thomann but it got some rather mixed reviews. I've managed to pick up a Weber Minimass off Ebay for £60 so hoping that will do the trick for relatively little outlay

[msmith4432]

I think it is only a matter of time before someone like Eminence or Celestion figures out that an inefficient speaker that sounds good would be a cheaper (and more popular) alternative to the FDM speakers like the Reignmaker for home use and small gigs. Home stereo speakers are inefficient, so it can't be that difficult to figure out.

I'm thinking a 90dB Vintage 30 variant would be a winner. Call it the Vintage 90 just to confuse things further.

Yes overly efficient speakers like the vintage 30 are not the friend of guys playing small to medium Gigs. I have used 97dbs for several years and while it isn't much every little bit helps

[vitja]

I just got Weber Mass 100 watt attenuator and I must say that I totally dig it!
The thing is that this one I bought from my fiend that he used it for or120, and he blow it.
Then a technician repaired it. Now it is like mass 150.

I really don't hear the difference at 70% of volume and treble boost at +3dB.

And it is great because you can really try your amp on all volumes and ohms and different speakers. And it has line out, so now I can run line out to my delay and than to a power amp and 2x12 just for solos.

It is really great gadget that is worth every penny.

I bought it for my or120 so I can really turn it to full drive and play any cab I wish, but I reed it on fender Bassman, Acoustic G100T, Hiwatt Dr103, marshall JCM800 and it works great on everything!

It actually has a speaker motor inside.