Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

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MikeD
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Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by MikeD » Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:04 pm

Next year I turn 40! My only child, a daughter, will be turning 8 and both of these things have made me come to the realization of one thing. Where are all the female guitarists? Where are the orange sponsored metal groups with female lead guitarists? Where are the axe wielding, acoustic guitar burning, mad-ass riffing, grunge-rocking women Where are they....and I don't mean the "less-clothed" ones found by googling "orange amps"+ "women"?! Why are we (musicians) so far behind when it comes to equal rights. Honestly had Slash been a women, would we not have yearned for his tone, if Stevie Ray had been Jenny-Ray Vaughan, would we not be amazed by her game?

The excuse of "women don't want to play electric guitar" is something my 40 years of age tells me to be a bluff....because honestly, you can market cat food too dog owners if you just package it right!! By this I don't mean doing Oranges in pink, because that's just Barbie-fying the entire question! I mean more in the lines of placing equipment, through sponsorship, in the hands of new role models for girls. By bringing forth axe-wielding women by endorsing and promoting bands with female guitarists.

Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy Katy Perry as much as the next guy. Everything has its place and even women are alowed to "drool" over objects within a socially acceptable norm. But what gets me is.... where are the guitar heroes for my daughter?
Gibson: Angus Young SG 03 / LP Standard 05 / Firebird V 01
Orange: RV50 mkII & ppc212-c / Micro Dark & ppc112
my rock/cover band:
deaf dumb & blind on Facebook
my "americana" band:
Oak Dust on Facebook

CPL
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by CPL » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:13 am

The music business has always been sexist, unfortunately. You should see some of the bullshit my girlfriend has had to deal with over the years as a solo artist. Speaking of guitars, what's really disgusting and exploitative is the Guitar World gear issue where they have emaciated looking women dressed like prostitutes holding guitars throughout the magazine. What the hell is up with that? I'd never buy one of those for that reason. Not because I'm some prude (I'm not,) but because I think there's something screwed up about that.
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Gray
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Gray » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:48 am

MikeD wrote:Where are the axe wielding, acoustic guitar burning, mad-ass riffing, grunge-rocking women
Well you asked the question, where are they? I'm not sure I follow the arguement here, are you saying that the music industry is filled with these "mad-ass riffing, grunge-rocking women" but that they are ignored because the industry is sexist? Are you saying that Orange has loads of potential "mad-ass riffing" women lining up to become sponsors whom they ignore because they're women and we're all a bunch of misogynists?

Maybe there just arn't that many women interested in becoming "mad-ass riffing" guitarists.

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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by callmesnake » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:15 am

They do exist!

How about Joanne Shaw Taylor, Laura Cox, and Samantha Fish for starters. Awesome players! :) I believe Laura Cox is the only Orange sponsored artist here. As someone who has tried, it doesn't matter if your male or female, purely just how much attention do you have as an artist that can bring more attention to the brand. Music biz 101...
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MikeD
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by MikeD » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:03 am

Gray wrote:
MikeD wrote:Where are the axe wielding, acoustic guitar burning, mad-ass riffing, grunge-rocking women
Well you asked the question, where are they? I'm not sure I follow the arguement here, are you saying that the music industry is filled with these "mad-ass riffing, grunge-rocking women" but that they are ignored because the industry is sexist? Are you saying that Orange has loads of potential "mad-ass riffing" women lining up to become sponsors whom they ignore because they're women and we're all a bunch of misogynists?

Maybe there just arn't that many women interested in becoming "mad-ass riffing" guitarists.
Can't say I'm pointing fingers, more just opening up a forum of questions. I too understand there might not be "as many women" interested in become axe-wielders.....but then again there is basically no marketing done towards them either so its just like a big hamster wheel going nowhere.

Of course we can look towards the music industry and say its all their fault because they've categorized bands being a certain way but its the same there....as long as we buy and sell the b*lllshit and never ask the question, it'll always just be this way.....
Gibson: Angus Young SG 03 / LP Standard 05 / Firebird V 01
Orange: RV50 mkII & ppc212-c / Micro Dark & ppc112
my rock/cover band:
deaf dumb & blind on Facebook
my "americana" band:
Oak Dust on Facebook

MikeD
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by MikeD » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:07 am

callmesnake wrote:They do exist!

How about Joanne Shaw Taylor, Laura Cox, and Samantha Fish for starters. Awesome players! :) I believe Laura Cox is the only Orange sponsored artist here. As someone who has tried, it doesn't matter if your male or female, purely just how much attention do you have as an artist that can bring more attention to the brand. Music biz 101...
True this....but wouldn't orange be opening up for a whole new market by diligently seeking out, sponsoring and publicitizing female artists. Music biz 102 :D
Gibson: Angus Young SG 03 / LP Standard 05 / Firebird V 01
Orange: RV50 mkII & ppc212-c / Micro Dark & ppc112
my rock/cover band:
deaf dumb & blind on Facebook
my "americana" band:
Oak Dust on Facebook

Gray
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Gray » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:18 am

MikeD wrote:but then again there is basically no marketing done towards them
So women need special marketing? I thought we were all equal, isn't that a bit sexist? :wink:

On a serious note... I do understand the point you're trying to make, espically as you're the father of a young daughter, i'm just skeptical of the arguement. I've not known many women who are attracted to the sweaty life of a gigging guitarist playing in cheap bars and local venues. Please don't mistake me, i'm not saying that women can't handle it, I just haven't met many who would want to, and I don't think it has anything to do with marketing.

Let me also be clear that my arguement is specifically referring to the type of "mad-ass riffing, grunge-rocking women" that MikeD mentions to in his initial post. i.e, the kind who would be Orange sponsors. There is an enormous number of very talented women in the general music industry. Several of whom I am a fan of.

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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by MikeD » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:53 am

Gray wrote:
MikeD wrote:but then again there is basically no marketing done towards them
So women need special marketing? I thought we were all equal, isn't that a bit sexist? :wink:

On a serious note... I do understand the point you're trying to make, espically as you're the father of a young daughter, i'm just skeptical of the arguement. I've not known many women who are attracted to the sweaty life of a gigging guitarist playing in cheap bars and local venues. Please don't mistake me, i'm not saying that women can't handle it, I just haven't met many who would want to, and I don't think it has anything to do with marketing.

Let me also be clear that my arguement is specifically referring to the type of "mad-ass riffing, grunge-rocking women" that MikeD mentions to in his initial post. i.e, the kind who would be Orange sponsors. There is an enormous number of very talented women in the general music industry. Several of whom I am a fan of.
Not "special marketing", as previously stated I'm no fan of "barbie-fying" products. That just removes the focus of what should be important in a product. I'm more in the realms of lifting forth more female musicians making the sweaty life of gigging something that might even attract even more. Why are so many of our mainstream female musicians singer-songwriter, acoustic playing ones....because it's a norm. Guitar playing women, much like us, latch on to (a) "hero (s)" or (a) "role model(s)" if you will, but if there are none in that genre that can be related too then the likelihood of there being more produced are slim.

The discussion of gender-equality is an interesting one but much like the "glass roof" theory in the business world I believe that the norms the rocknroll industry has created ( this not being a conscious desicion but one that has just followed the times) is something that doesn't help. I think really I've just come to the realisation of that my daughter should be givin the same opportunities that I have had and I would love that she had the joys that being a musician bring to life. But even by placing the right equipment in her hands and giving her encouragement....its still still not going o be on equal terms seeing that the role models I've always related too, just aren't the same in her realm.
Gibson: Angus Young SG 03 / LP Standard 05 / Firebird V 01
Orange: RV50 mkII & ppc212-c / Micro Dark & ppc112
my rock/cover band:
deaf dumb & blind on Facebook
my "americana" band:
Oak Dust on Facebook

Gray
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Gray » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:12 am

Maybe she should learn bass! Look to Kim Deal, Jenny Lee Lindberg or Kira Roessler for some role models.

Really though, I don't have much else to say about it. I can think of more than a few hard rocking female guitarists, I just don't think many women find that career appealing for reasons unrelated to gender bias.

megalithic
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by megalithic » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:30 pm

L7. Look, there are lots, but because of the sexism or whatever, they are not particularly well known.

And also not as many women are interested in guitars, be that because of society or whatever, it seems to be the case. For example, I looked at the analytics for my youtube page and it was 96% male, and it's not even all guitar stuff, there's also electronic music on there. However, that doesn't account for people who were not logged in, although I don't see why that would differ drastically. Even if a lot of women registered as male, I doubt it would be more than a few percent difference.
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Randy Bass
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Randy Bass » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:01 pm

It's probably down to math as much as anything else. For decades, women have been less likely than men to play the electric guitar for whatever reasons. The main attraction to most boys has always been the idea that chicks will worship you if you play the guitar, which is traditionally not really something that has motivated girls to start playing.

The number of women that are exceptional players is probably the same percentage as for male players (maybe 2% or less), but with a much smaller pool of female players in total, there aren't going to be many female virtuosos in the right place at the right time to become famous guitar goddesses. I would venture a guess that things will change in the next 20 years, but it won't happen overnight.

The great thing about music is that ears are blind. If a female player comes along that has a great original style like Slash and is in a band that writes good songs, she won't be ignored due to gender. If anything, it will help to attract more male fans. Even Slash has lots of songs/albums that have been ignored since the GNR days because they weren't necessarily as appealing as a whole despite his individual skills. He wouldn't necessarily have become famous if not for the songwriting ability of Axl Rose. Gasp.
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Sid Nitzerglobin
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Sid Nitzerglobin » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:58 pm

There are actually quite a few of them. Nowhere near the number of males, generally not in the mainstream, and not sponsored by Orange (or usually anyone but themselves).

I think it's a combination of factors that keeps rockin guitar girls out of the bigs so to speak. There's still a cultural preconception that rock guitar is a masculine thing that can lead to self selection by some females to not play rock and makes it harder to continue for those that don't. There's definitely still a whole lot of mysoginy music, from the business side, from fellow players, from audiences that I'd imagine makes it suck put yourself out there. It also seems like the typical traditional gender conditioning for girls to be proper ladies is still hanging on and the established cliché of what being a rock guitar player is is in conflict w/ that.

Seems like to change that we need more women to persist through all the stuff stacked against them, people to support those that do, and time for their efforts to make the general population more comfortable w/ rockin women.
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Gladmarr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:10 pm

I'm not going to dip my toe into the gender politics discussion, but I will just say if you haven't heard Sleater-Kinney's latest album No Cities To Love, you're doing yourself a grave disservice. They are a great BAND. Period.

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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Boy_Narf » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:06 pm

Carmen Townsend. Orange amp user and brilliant artist.
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Re: Orange amps....maybe its time for change?

Post by Jondog » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:53 pm

Madonna uses Orange :roll:
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