Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX loop

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SurferMax
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Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX loop

Post by SurferMax » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:51 pm

Hi guys,

I have some noise problems with my Rockerverb MKII 50. I use it with a PPC212 cabinet.

When I use my FXs in front of the amp, the sound is crystal clear. However, when adding the FX loop, I get a very annoying noise. I would describe it as a loud transformer. It does not get louder if I increase either my amp volume/gain, or my guitar’s volume. I haven't tried placing all of them in front of the amp, but I one important reason for getting an amp with an FX loop was exactly because I like having one!

I do have a lot of pedals and I am aware that noise increases the more you have chained. However, all my pedals are very good ones, newer versions, with true bypass.

My chain is as follows:

In front of the Amp: TC Electronics Polytune>TC Electronics Spark Mini Booster>Mini Fuzz Face>Wah Wah Dunlop Jimi Hendrix Jh-1>Tone Hungry Hunger Bender (a tone bender)>EHX Octavix>Boss Compression Sustainer CS-2 (this is actually an oldie but as you probably know, an excellent good one)>Totally Wicked Audio Great Divide

FX Loop: EHX C9>EHX Freeze>MXR Phaser 90>Moog Minifooger MF Trem>EHX Small Clone Chorus>EHX Electric Mistress Deluxe Flanger>Deja Vibe Uni-Vibe>Catalinbread Belle Epoch>Moog Moogerfooger MF-104M Analog Delay

I would like adding my Fender Vintage Reissue '63 Reverb Unit after the Moog Delay, but as this is a tube driven reverb it could add more noise to the chain. I haven’t done it yet.

So, my questions are:

1. Is there anything wrong I could be doing when chaining my pedals in the FX loop?
2. If I cannot get rid of the noise, would an ISP Decimator (or any other noise stage) placed in the FX loop get rid of the noise?
3. Do I need a power conditioner? Which one works with 230v?

Many thanks,


Max
Amps:
Orange Rockerverb 100w MKIII
Orange PPC212OB
Orange PPC212C
Orange Micro Dark
Orange PPC 108
Orange Crush Mini
Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb

Guitars:
Rickenbacker 325C64
Fender Jazzmaster AV 65
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender Telecaster Standard

FleshOnGear
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by FleshOnGear » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:35 pm

Sounds like a ground loop. How are you powering your pedals?
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SurferMax
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by SurferMax » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:26 pm

FleshOnGear wrote:Sounds like a ground loop. How are you powering your pedals?

One Pedaltrain Powertrain 1250 DC Power Supply, one Decibel Eleven Hot Stone Deluxe Isolated DC Power Supply, grounded wall sockets and a power surge. My amps are plugged directly into the wall, and both my pedal power supplies are plugged into a surge protector that goes directly to a grounded wall socket. The 3 grounded sockets are in the same box in the wall, if you know what I mean. I have a couple of effects directly plugged to EHX 9V power adapters, which are also plugged in the power surge.

I do not have any radio waves emissions (TV's, neon lights, etc.) in the room.

I still can't get what is a ground loop. What is it? How could i get rid of it? Would an ISP Decimator or any noise gate work?

Thanks for your help.
Amps:
Orange Rockerverb 100w MKIII
Orange PPC212OB
Orange PPC212C
Orange Micro Dark
Orange PPC 108
Orange Crush Mini
Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb

Guitars:
Rickenbacker 325C64
Fender Jazzmaster AV 65
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender Telecaster Standard

Ronnie Robinson
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:37 pm

Certainly a problem as u know the effects loop should be super quiet.

No idea to be honest but I would be trying a different pre amp valve that deals with the effect loop.
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SurferMax
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by SurferMax » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:44 pm

Ronnie Robinson wrote:Certainly a problem as u know the effects loop should be super quiet.

No idea to be honest but I would be trying a different pre amp valve that deals with the effect loop.
This is a brand new Rockerverb 50 MKII, but I'll give it a try.

Thanks.
Amps:
Orange Rockerverb 100w MKIII
Orange PPC212OB
Orange PPC212C
Orange Micro Dark
Orange PPC 108
Orange Crush Mini
Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb

Guitars:
Rickenbacker 325C64
Fender Jazzmaster AV 65
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender Telecaster Standard

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by Les Paul Lover » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:46 pm

And have you tried to simply plug a cable from the send to the return?

Depending on the length/quality of the cable, you shouldn't any noise, perhaps just a slight loss of high end, but should be barely noticeable.

As Ronnie suggested, a bad valve could be the culprit, and valves are most likely to fail early on or last for ages - being new doesn't mean that all valves are great, that's why they have a 3 months warranty.
Ant

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Borderline Productions
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by Borderline Productions » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:00 am

Agree with connecting the output and input jacks. If there is noise, it is the tube/valve.
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SurferMax
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by SurferMax » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:08 am

Borderline Productions wrote:Agree with connecting the output and input jacks. If there is noise, it is the tube/valve.
Thanks for the help, but no noise. I think it is a groud loop.
Amps:
Orange Rockerverb 100w MKIII
Orange PPC212OB
Orange PPC212C
Orange Micro Dark
Orange PPC 108
Orange Crush Mini
Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb

Guitars:
Rickenbacker 325C64
Fender Jazzmaster AV 65
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender Telecaster Standard

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:14 am

SurferMax wrote:
Borderline Productions wrote:Agree with connecting the output and input jacks. If there is noise, it is the tube/valve.
Thanks for the help, but no noise. I think it is a groud loop.
Excellent, now you know the amp is fine. So the issue is either with your pedals, cables or power supply.

What I would suggest now would be to add the pedals one by one, this should help pin point the source if noise. Could take some time though as you chain is quite big..

Since you have 4 power supplies, I would unplugged them all and try them one by one too.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

SurferMax
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by SurferMax » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:52 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
SurferMax wrote:
Borderline Productions wrote:Agree with connecting the output and input jacks. If there is noise, it is the tube/valve.
Thanks for the help, but no noise. I think it is a groud loop.
Excellent, now you know the amp is fine. So the issue is either with your pedals, cables or power supply.

What I would suggest now would be to add the pedals one by one, this should help pin point the source if noise. Could take some time though as you chain is quite big..

Since you have 4 power supplies, I would unplugged them all and try them one by one too.
Thanks. Actually I already did that. Regardless of what pedal I put first through the FX loop, the noise appears. I also tried using the same pedals in front of the amp and no noise whatsoever. That's why I think it is a ground loop. I think I'll get an Ebtech Hum Eliminator to try it. I can't use the Hum X here, since our power runs at 230v.
Amps:
Orange Rockerverb 100w MKIII
Orange PPC212OB
Orange PPC212C
Orange Micro Dark
Orange PPC 108
Orange Crush Mini
Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb

Guitars:
Rickenbacker 325C64
Fender Jazzmaster AV 65
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender Telecaster Standard

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:19 pm

Have you tried using a battery for any of those pedals in the loop? I'm wondering if the hum would be there with a single battery powered pedal?

And when you mean any pedal, you mean any pedal with any of the power supplies you have?
Last edited by Les Paul Lover on Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

SurferMax
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by SurferMax » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:41 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:Have you tried using a battery for any of those pedalling the loop? I'm wondering if the hum would be there with a single battery powered pedal?

And when you mean any pedal, you mean any pedal with any of the power supplies you have?
Well, I tried once with a battery powered pedal. I used an old Boss BF-2 Flanger. The noise was there as well, but I'll give it a second shot and report. Unfortunately, most of my time-based pedals can't work with batteries. Eg: Deja Vibe, EHX C9 Organ, EHX Electric Mistress Deluxe, Moogerfooger Delay, etc.

Yeah, I meant every power supply I have. I tried with the Powertrain, the Decibel 11, wall warts, and as written above, my Boss Flanger with batteries.

I'll report after I tried once again those pedals that do work with batteries.

Thank you so much for all your suggestions!
Amps:
Orange Rockerverb 100w MKIII
Orange PPC212OB
Orange PPC212C
Orange Micro Dark
Orange PPC 108
Orange Crush Mini
Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb

Guitars:
Rickenbacker 325C64
Fender Jazzmaster AV 65
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender Telecaster Standard

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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by Boy_Narf » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:06 pm

Did you say what kind of cables you are using? My pedal-board noise pretty much vanished after I switched to some proper pedal board cable.
TT | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

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SurferMax
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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by SurferMax » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:18 am

Boy_Narf wrote:Did you say what kind of cables you are using? My pedal-board noise pretty much vanished after I switched to some proper pedal board cable.
Hey, excellent suggestion. I replaced one cable which I thought it was good, but I realised it wasn't. The noise is still there, but switching cables decreased it a lot. Maybe I'm a little bit spoiled by Rockerverb's crystal clear sound (or my Fender '65 Deluxe RI).

I will try to get rid completely of it with the Ebtech Hum Eliminator. If it doesn't work, I will return it or maybe keep it for gigs. From time to time I've played in some venues that they're not even grounded and share power with lights!
Amps:
Orange Rockerverb 100w MKIII
Orange PPC212OB
Orange PPC212C
Orange Micro Dark
Orange PPC 108
Orange Crush Mini
Fender ‘65 Deluxe Reverb

Guitars:
Rickenbacker 325C64
Fender Jazzmaster AV 65
Gibson Les Paul Standard
Fender Telecaster Standard

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Re: Noise issues with my pedal chain and Rockerverb 50 FX lo

Post by Boy_Narf » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:24 am

Just splurge on a pedal board cable kit. Like the solderless planet waves, or George L. It's way worth it in the long run.
TT | R30 | R30C | PPC212V

PedalTrain2 | Zuma

GLXD16 | Decimate | FlashBackMini | ST1 | TimeLine | BlueSky | RangIII | DMC3XL | EX-50

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