Orange CR60C Review

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Slartibartfarst42
Tiny Terror
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:24 pm
Location: Market Rasen, Lincolnshire, England

Orange CR60C Review

Post by Slartibartfarst42 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:38 pm

I've joined this forum because I'm now the proud owner of a CR60C and I thought I'd post a detailed review. I review lots of gear and they tend to be long I'm afraid :D

Like most people I've been a real fan of valve amps for many years but unlike most people who seem to write reviews for this amp, I was looking at the CR60C to replace a more expensive valve amp for both home and gigs. The valve amp in question was a Blackstar HT60 Soloist so a very good amp and my reasons for this change should become evident as this review progresses. Throughout the review I will be using the Blackstar as my reference point.

Physically, the Orange CR60C looks tiny compared to the Blackstar, which is unusually big for a 1X12. I've read reports saying the CR60C is heavy for a solid state amp but I found it positively featherweight compared to the Blackstar. Build quality is excellent with sturdy switches and dials, high quality materials and an overall ‘high end’ feel to the package so that’s a good start.

I've been very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the tone on the Clean channel. It’s clear and warm and while it doesn’t quite have the richness of a good valve amp, it’s still good enough for me. That's partly because I don't use the Clean channel much but mostly because I've never been that struck on the Clean channel on my Blackstar or indeed, any of the valve amps I've owned previously, all of which were designed more for distortion. Treachery as it may seem, I prefer the Clean channel on the Orange to the Blackstar. Setting the Clean channel just to the point of break-up again yields very good results, especially as it seems to respond very like a valve amp. When I was in the shop I asked them to give me an Overdrive pedal to put in front of it and they brought a Marshall GV-2. The result was reasonable but hardly spectacular and I was left somewhat disappointed that I couldn't get a better crunch tone that way. At this point I decided that the GV-2 might just be a poor pedal so I brought out my Carl Martin Quattro that I'd taken along just in case, which has two Overdrives onboard. Hooking this beauty up to the Orange made a huge difference. Engaging OD1 from the Quattro on the Clean channel produced a drastically improved result and OD2 just gave me more distortion with the same good quality tone. Ironically, I've never liked using the overdrives on the Quattro with the Clean channel of the Blackstar but on the Orange it was a revelation and I loved it.

I was initially disappointed with the Drive channel because on the Blackstar, setting the gain to '3' gives me plenty of distortion for a good AC/DC sound but on the Orange the sound was still pretty much clean. At the other extreme, moving the gain to maximum gives you plenty distortion and with it comes a noticeable 'fuzziness' that you may have read about in other reviews of Orange amps. It’s not the same as the tone being mushy because it’s not and it’s not necessarily bad because in a way I quite liked it but it is certainly ‘different’. Setting the gain to between 50% and 75% is where this amp likes to live. The distortion is really quite impressive with very good articulation and even a relatively cheap Overdrive pedal like the Marshall GV-2 produced some pleasing results, giving you some extra dirt without the fuzziness. Using my Carl Martin Quattro produces even better results. Set the gain on the Drive channel at 50% and engage OD1 on the Quattro for sonic heaven. Mmmmmmmmmm; a REALLY nice sound and once again, moving to OD2 on the Quattro did nothing to remove the quality of the tone. Smooth, very articulate and very 80's Metal in style but with more gain. Once again I found myself very impressed and I wasn't the only one. The combination of the CR60C and my Carl Martin Quattro produced such good results in the store after virtually no tweaking that a couple of the sales guys came over to see what I was using!

What about a back to back comparison with the Blackstar? This is where it gets tricky. God I love that amp and in the cold light of day, the tone from the Blackstar is definitely superior. It has more depth, more richness and more complexity in the tone compared to the Orange BUT the Orange amp does have numerous redeeming qualities, not least of which is the fact that the Blackstar, being a valve amp, needs to have the valves both hot and driven to get that awesome tone whereas the Orange will give you its tone at almost any volume with far more consistency. If you approach the Orange looking for a perfect valve tone, you’re going to be disappointed. While it certainly has some valve-like qualities to it, that doesn't make it a direct substitute for valve tone. If, however, you approach the Orange just looking for a good quality tone that has its own thing going on, then I think you may be pleasantly surprised as the tone is excellent. It certainly has a lot more to it than other solid state amps I've tried and for me, works a lot better than all these modelling amps that try (and fail) to reproduce valve tone. I don’t get the impression that Orange were trying to emulate a valve amp, even if a lot of this amp is taken from one of their valve models. Instead they've simply concentrated on producing an amp with a really good tone in its own right and in this, they have certainly succeeded. It may not quite have the harmonic richness of valves but I still love the tone. Furthermore, strange as this may seem, the Carl Martin Quattro seems to work even better on the Orange than it did on my Blackstar! I have the two channels on the Orange set up so the Clean channel is just on the edge of break-up and the Drive channel is set to 50% gain and if I use it this way with the two Overdrive options I have on the Carl Martin Quattro, I end up with six very useable tones whereas I could never get that many using the two channels on the Blackstar. I have absolutely no idea at all why that should be the case as I know nothing of electronics and I would have thought that effects from Carl Martin would be tailored more to higher end valve gear but to my ears it just works better with the Orange.

In buying this amp I really struggled to get past the fact that the ultimate tone on the Blackstar was better and if you’re in the same boat, wondering about either buying the CR60C or a cheap or used valve amp, you will have the same quandary. This is a real world issue because my Blackstar will sell on the used market for almost exactly what the CR60C costs new but for me, the ultimately superior tone on the Blackstar wasn’t enough for me to keep it. The Orange is smaller, lighter, works better with my primary pedal, has a far more consistent tone in relation to volume, will be far more dependable without the fear of a valve giving out during a gig and I no longer have to fork out a chunk of cash to replace valves! I had to do that a few months ago and by the time I’d bought a full set of valves and paid someone to bias them properly I was about £100 poorer. That’s almost a third of the cost of the Orange CR60C!! On top of that, I do really like the tone of the Orange and while the valve amp may have been superior when it’s being driven reasonably hard, it wasn't by anything like as much as I'd feared. Once you get your head around the fact that the tone of the Orange is just ‘different’ to a valve amp, the difference in the quality of tone becomes relatively marginal and all of its other virtues start to look even more compelling. My only real gripe is that the footswitch isn’t included and quite honestly, it should be. It’s also a reasonably chunky footswitch for what it is but overall I have no complaints and no regrets about making the change to give up on valves to move to the ‘dark side’ of solid state. I still don’t like modelling amps and I still don’t like digital amps but the Orange is neither of these things; it’s a high quality analogue amplifier that’s based heavily on the Rockerverb 50 but doesn't use valves. It gives you most of the quality of a valve amp’s tone and in many ways the tone is just as good or even better without any of the negatives associated with using valves. Pair it with a good quality Overdrive pedal and there’s not much you can’t do with this little beauty.
Gibson Les Paul Studio
PRS SE Floyd Custom 24 with Creamery Double Six and '59 pickups
Fender Stratocaster with DiMarzio Virtual Solo, Area 58 and Area 61 pickups
Orange TH30
Crybaby 535Q Wah
Hardwire Overdrive
Nova System

bclaire
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17905
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 9:19 pm
Location: Outside Boston MA, USA
Contact:

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by bclaire » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:14 pm

Are Blackstars any good? Because I've never taken them seriously - I always thought they were a cheapo amp. For that reason I've never tried one...

Slartibartfarst42
Tiny Terror
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:24 pm
Location: Market Rasen, Lincolnshire, England

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Slartibartfarst42 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:51 pm

I've tried a fair few valve amps and there's certainly better out there but generally speaking at a hell of a premium on price. For its money the Blackstar is superb. It's far better than a Marshall DSL that I've owned previously and also far better than the H&K Switchblade I owned just before the Blackstar. The tone is very like Marshall but with a bit more of a modern edge. I could say the same thing about the Blackstar compared to an Orange too I think. If you're looking for a valve amp at that kind of price point there's nothing to match it and even at a fair bit higher than its price point. That's what made changing to the Orange CR60C so hard. The tone on that Blackstar was incredible and certainly better than the Crush Pro but unfortunately there were other factors involved. I'm 50 and have a weak back so saving weight was important. I play in pubs and transporting my gear in my car along with part of the band's PA so space is at a premium. I was also absolutely sure I was never going to fork out £100 for valves ever again and I wanted to be able to play at lower volumes in the house without cringing at the loss of tone. I miss the Blackstar enormously and often wonder if I did the right thing but this was a case of the head ruling the heart for a change and the fact is that the CR60C is a very good amp. I'd say the tone is more classically 80's Metal on the Orange as the distortion is so smooth but given my age, that's no bad thing at all. I use Creamery Classic '83 pickups for a reason :D
Gibson Les Paul Studio
PRS SE Floyd Custom 24 with Creamery Double Six and '59 pickups
Fender Stratocaster with DiMarzio Virtual Solo, Area 58 and Area 61 pickups
Orange TH30
Crybaby 535Q Wah
Hardwire Overdrive
Nova System

bclaire
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17905
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 9:19 pm
Location: Outside Boston MA, USA
Contact:

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by bclaire » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:40 pm

Yeah, I just turned 59 and I know what you mean. I have a Volvo V70 though that makes loading gear much easier on the back - you don't have to lift very high and it holds everything! But I still bring my Orange AD30TC combo (heavy) my two Turbosound monitor wedges (also very heavy) Orange 4X10 and 1X15 bass cabs (ditto) and usually 5-6 guitars. Plus my rack and road case guitar stand. All fit with no problem! And there's even room for my wife! :mrgreen:

Slartibartfarst42
Tiny Terror
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:24 pm
Location: Market Rasen, Lincolnshire, England

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Slartibartfarst42 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:55 am

Sadly, my car is smaller so there are times when the wife needs to stay at home. It's complicated by the fat that the other guitarist doesn't drive so I often have to squeeze him and at least part of his gear in my car too! Plenty people I've spoken to think I'm mad moving from valve to solid state but to me it's a matter of being realistic about my circumstances. Even leaving space, weight, cost etc. aside, the fact remains that I only play in pubs at most 20 times a year and having a valve amp for such a small part of the year seems silly when a really good solid state option is more appropriate for the other 344 days. I see guys in other bands who are in a similar situation to me and they're carting round half stacks of valve power when there's no need. I think most of them seem to be using the size of their amp as some sort of extension of their manhood. :roll:
Gibson Les Paul Studio
PRS SE Floyd Custom 24 with Creamery Double Six and '59 pickups
Fender Stratocaster with DiMarzio Virtual Solo, Area 58 and Area 61 pickups
Orange TH30
Crybaby 535Q Wah
Hardwire Overdrive
Nova System

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:34 pm

If the solid state / reduced weight works for you then excellent!

But do you not say in your review the tone of the valve amp you consider much superior to the solid state?

A lot of people love playing and want to use the best gear they can afford - most are gear nuts anyway and strive to hopefully get the best tone they can.
This may mean some heavy lifting but if your tone puts a smile on your face then job done.

They is also something very right about going to a gig and seeing big cabs and amps!
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

Slartibartfarst42
Tiny Terror
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:24 pm
Location: Market Rasen, Lincolnshire, England

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Slartibartfarst42 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:03 pm

I guess that like everything else in life, it's about compromise, even if that is just driven by budget. The tone on the Blackstar was ultimately better, that is true and I stand by that but the Orange is 90-95% there on tone and the Blackstar only really has that edge at gig volumes, or at least when it's loud. At more moderate volumes the Blackstar has virtually no advantage in tone and the Orange is more 'different' than inferior, while at home levels, the Orange is better. Whichever route I took, a compromise would be involved so I like to think that instead of settling for second best, I simply reassessed my priorities and subsequently made a choice that involved fewer compromises. Fair enough, I sacrificed the best possible tone but it was equally a tone I wasn't able to use for most days in the year and once I passed the issue of tone and came to terms with that, the rest was easy because in every other way the solid state option of the CR60C had the Blackstar beaten.

As for a nice wall of speakers at a gig; I can't argue there :D
Gibson Les Paul Studio
PRS SE Floyd Custom 24 with Creamery Double Six and '59 pickups
Fender Stratocaster with DiMarzio Virtual Solo, Area 58 and Area 61 pickups
Orange TH30
Crybaby 535Q Wah
Hardwire Overdrive
Nova System

OrangeBoy
Tiny Terror
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:35 am

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by OrangeBoy » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:49 am

I replaced a Fender Super-Sonic 60 Watt amp with the CR60 for similar reasons to the OP. It’s simply awesome and tube like in its response but compared directly to amps such as the Super-Sonic, OR15 and Marshall Vintage Modern it doesn’t quite have the tonal complexities but I consider it about 95% there as well. It probably is unfair comparing it directly with different valve amps but the difference is unnoticeable when played in isolation. To me it’s an amp with it’s own distinctive, tube-like flavour comparable to differences between tube amp manufacturers that have distinctive signature tones. It certainly does have that Orange mid range thing happening and admittedly is worlds apart from the Super-Sonic but with just-as-tasty tones. CR60 distortion is overall better than Super-Sonic to my ears but the cleans are really not comparable because the Fender amp produces classic tones. CR60 clean is it’s own thing and is what the OP describes. The reverb is awesome and a touch added really narrows the gap between the tube amps and CR60. Yep, it’s lightweight and portable, especially compared to the Super-Sonic, and hopefully it will be reliable due to not having to deal with potentially finicky tubes. When tone, weight, portability, versatility and cost is considered it’s an all round winner IMO.

stuart_tate41
Tiny Terror
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:45 pm
Location: Maidenhead

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by stuart_tate41 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:26 am

You could argue that the Blackstar HT60 is not a true valve amplifier though as the HT series use a solid state rectifier.

Bensnake
Orange Master
Posts: 2260
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:36 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Bensnake » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:49 am

stuart_tate41 wrote:You could argue that the Blackstar HT60 is not a true valve amplifier though as the HT series use a solid state rectifier.
You mean solid state phase inverter?
Image
RV100 MKIII | '75 OR120 | OR100 | OR50 | CS50 | R30H | TT
2 x PPC412
Bax B. | Amp D.

Marshall 1959 HW + 1936V
Fender '65 Super Reverb Reissue
Vox AC30C2X + V212C

Playing Les Pauls and Teles...

Slartibartfarst42
Tiny Terror
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:24 pm
Location: Market Rasen, Lincolnshire, England

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Slartibartfarst42 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:30 pm

Bensnake wrote:
stuart_tate41 wrote:You could argue that the Blackstar HT60 is not a true valve amplifier though as the HT series use a solid state rectifier.
You mean solid state phase inverter?
Yeah, I've heard this argument before but I think the whole thing gets a bit picky with things like that. It has preamp valves, it has power amp valves and it behaves exactly as a valve amp does so to me, it's a valve amp. I'm happy to accept that the Vox Valvetronix and Marshall Valvestate amps aren't proper valve amps but things like the Blackstar surely have enough valve technology in them to constitute a real valve amp? I'm not suggesting it's on a par with the best that Orange have to offer but then it's a fraction of the price and I'm far from convinced having a phase inverter that isn't solid state would encourage me to part with the thick end of £1000 extra.

Thanks for the positive comments OrangeBoy, it's always nice to hear that you didn't make a really stupid choice :D
Gibson Les Paul Studio
PRS SE Floyd Custom 24 with Creamery Double Six and '59 pickups
Fender Stratocaster with DiMarzio Virtual Solo, Area 58 and Area 61 pickups
Orange TH30
Crybaby 535Q Wah
Hardwire Overdrive
Nova System

stuart_tate41
Tiny Terror
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:45 pm
Location: Maidenhead

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by stuart_tate41 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:45 pm

For the record I have a HT1 head and I love it! Although I tried the HT20 the other day and didn't feel it.

Bensnake
Orange Master
Posts: 2260
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:36 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Bensnake » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:54 pm

Slartibartfarst42 wrote:
Bensnake wrote:
stuart_tate41 wrote:You could argue that the Blackstar HT60 is not a true valve amplifier though as the HT series use a solid state rectifier.
You mean solid state phase inverter?
Yeah, I've heard this argument before but I think the whole thing gets a bit picky with things like that. It has preamp valves, it has power amp valves and it behaves exactly as a valve amp does so to me, it's a valve amp. I'm happy to accept that the Vox Valvetronix and Marshall Valvestate amps aren't proper valve amps but things like the Blackstar surely have enough valve technology in them to constitute a real valve amp? I'm not suggesting it's on a par with the best that Orange have to offer but then it's a fraction of the price and I'm far from convinced having a phase inverter that isn't solid state would encourage me to part with the thick end of £1000 extra.

Thanks for the positive comments OrangeBoy, it's always nice to hear that you didn't make a really stupid choice :D
I agree though most "all valve" amps nowadays use SS rectifires so I think he meant phase inverter.

I've read somewhere that the HT-5 has some diode clipping in the overdrive circuit, but I don't know if that goes for all amps in the Venue series.
Image
RV100 MKIII | '75 OR120 | OR100 | OR50 | CS50 | R30H | TT
2 x PPC412
Bax B. | Amp D.

Marshall 1959 HW + 1936V
Fender '65 Super Reverb Reissue
Vox AC30C2X + V212C

Playing Les Pauls and Teles...

Black13
New Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by Black13 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:01 pm

I enjoyed reading your review. I just sold off my BlackStar HT-5R head and ordered the CR120H to replace it. I still have an 18W all-tube combo that I can disconnect the internal speaker and use whatever cabinet with, for recording, or just when I'm jonesin' for all-tube-saturation. It stays safe at home, not enduring the rigors of road travel.

While searching for "Best Solid State Guitar Amp", these Orange "Crush Pro" amps kept turning up. Surely by now, Solid State technology must be improving, I thought. Less fragile, more road-worthy than tubes, and no cost involved with tube replacements. I can turn it on and off without worry of what the tubes are doing - no warm-up time. I don't have to crank the amp too loud to get tone, making it a good choice for bedroom practicing, where I might turn it off and on a lot and play at low volume levels at night. It matches the PPC112 I already have (it's the same width; I hate when the head is wider than the cab and overhangs on the sides). I could discontinue my search for an Orange-voiced stomp pedal (which would also be analog solid-state circuity, but made by another company).

I like how it's analog, like my pedals, not like these digital modeling amps. I like how it doesn't even try to perpetrate anything it's not, by using a tube pre-amp section or whatever. It's PROUD of what it is, and doesn't try to be tube-anything. I like that. It's not "valvestate" or "valvecore" or whatever they're called these days. It's not digital emulation. Analog (with a digital reverb effect).

My attitude towards tube amps is always thinking they're fragile. I've never had a problem, but still always like to let the tubes warm a bit before flipping the standby switch, and always feeling like I'm "putting miles" on my amp, using it up the finite tube life-spans. I'm viewing my switch (back) to solid state like a weight lifted off my shoulders. Less responsibility and stress/worry, and that's a real thing for my obsessive compulsive disorder or whatever.

This will be my first Orange amp, and I'm overly excited about it. It'll also be my first "full sized" guitar amp, whatever that means.
Guitar:
Orange CR120H
Orange PPC112

Electar Century 18W Class A/B (2x6V6/2x12AX7)
Electro Harmonix Magnum 44W Class D PWR amp
Marshall G10 mkII

Bass:
Ampeg Micro CL
SansAmp ParaDriver
Crown XLS-1500 Class D PWR amp
Mesa Boogie Diesel Road Ready 2x15

pedecamp
Orange Hero
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: Orange CR60C Review

Post by pedecamp » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:47 am

Very good review and very good and valid reasons to switch from tube to ss. In the end, at a gig you would probably mic the amp any way if need be so really its about the tone and how it cuts in the mix, if you have those things then you're good to go. I have to say that I was very interested in this amp and its only downfall was a lack of headphone jack otherwise I'd probably own one. I still would be very interested in how it sounds through a speaker cabinet, I thought it was a little boxy sounding in the store on its own.
Thunderverb 50
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 398 guests