Difference in 212 cabs

[Lucian]

Orange is offering several 212 cabs including the COB, which i understand stands for "compact open back".
Other then being compact and open back, how does it differ from the regular ppc212? any sound differences? why is it cheaper? is it from different material?

If anyone can shine some light on the differences on the cabs in the current production line, it would be very helpful.

[DiabloS]

Orange is offering several 212 cabs including the COB, which i understand stands for "compact open back".
Other then being compact and open back, how does it differ from the regular ppc212? any sound differences? why is it cheaper? is it from different material?

If anyone can shine some light on the differences on the cabs in the current production line, it would be very helpful.

It differs from the PPC212 closed back by being built in China instead of the UK, so that accounts for some of the price difference. It will sound different more because it is an open back cab though, which means in general the sound will disperse more evenly but will be a little less punchy than the closed back cab.

It's much lighter and easier to carry than the PPC212 closed back which can be a beast to carry. I bought a PPC212 Open back and then paid someone to make a convertible back for it so it can be used as either open or closed back. If you're even slightly handy with doing jobs like this, you should be able to do this yourself. It's been suggested here a few times as a good option if carrying the cab anywhere is a concern.

If you're just going to leave the cab in one spot or have gorilla arms, the closed back version would have more bass response and may sound a tad fuller because it's bigger.

[Ronnie Robinson]

+1

[Mystic38]

To add to what Diablo indicated..

Open backed cabs also radiate a high percentage of sound to the rear..this sound is reflected off the walls and is radiated forward with a wide dispersion... So while this does open up the listening area, (desirable playing in a small club say) you do lose phase coherency as any given signal is arriving at the listener from two directions..direct from the driver, and a delayed reflected component via walls etc (hence the term "less focussed"). Due to the open back you also lose a fair degree of bass tightness and bass extension.

While buying an OP cab and adding a closed back panel will improve the response, the tuning of the cab will be at a higher frequency than the PPC212CB due to the smaller dimension and so the bass extension will not be identical to the PPC212CB.. but will be a fair bit better than the PPC212OB.

In summary tho, its the same conclusion...if its staying put, get the PPC212CB. However, if you plan on carrying this around regularly then if you have the wingspan of an NBA player and biceps to match, get the PPC212CB, otherwise get the PPC212OB

Orange is offering several 212 cabs including the COB, which i understand stands for "compact open back".
Other then being compact and open back, how does it differ from the regular ppc212? any sound differences? why is it cheaper? is it from different material?

If anyone can shine some light on the differences on the cabs in the current production line, it would be very helpful.

[a.hun]

General agreement with the above posts. But which is 'better' isn't always so cut and dried.

I do think having a removable back panel to get the best of both worlds is a great idea. I actually generally prefer open back cabs for guitar. They sound more open and airy, to me, they seem to 'breathe'. Also the sound is MUCH more even around the room. My biggest problem with closed back ones is the directionality - the 'beaming' if you like.

Lower bass frequencies are actually not directional in the way that people think. True lows radiate pretty much equally in all directions from any cab, (closed or ported), including up, down, front, back, sides. With ported cabs it doesn't even really matter much where the ports are, front / back / sides, or even what shape they are. The tuning (size) of the port is the most important thing.
Yes the main bass end differences between open and closed are to do with 'tightness' and the speakers in closed back cabs are more damped by the trapped air so the bass response is tighter. (Not the same as 'deeper' BTW, just more controlled and defined!) In that respect closed back cabs are definitely better for some styles of music where you want tighter bass.
Anyway for guitar the idea that more bass is better is generally not the way to cut through best in the best band mix. Quite the opposite usually - electric guitar sounds are usually mostly about the mids and too much bass will a. muddy things up and b. use up a lot more of your amp's power headroom, both of which can make you less audible in the mix out there. What sounds best playing solo in front of your amp probably isn't what is going to sound best in a band mix!

It is higher frequencies which are more directional though, and the higher the frequency the tighter the beaming. This is especially true with multi speaker cabs with side by side speakers where the interaction between the speakers tightens the beam out front dramatically . My big problem here is that people directly in front of the cab hear it as much brighter than people in the rest of the room. Same is true for the band. Solution for a 2x12 there is to run it on it's side so that the speakers are vertical.
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For 4 speaker cabs (2x2 array) there is no perfect solution though, they are all beamers. Then you need to be especially careful how you set up your sounds. Beam blockers can help some but are more a useful fix than a total solution IMO.

Whatever cabs you use though you'll find that room positioning is important. Don't just put them where they 'look' best. Try moving them about in relation to the (back / side) walls and you'll get big differences out front. Ditto by raising them off the floor to different heights.

Some really good advice on guitar cab positioning from my old friend John P on two posts (#13 + #18) here...

...raise it up to the same height as your guitar body (but don't tilt it)...

Any particular reason not to tilt?

Because it points the amp at your head.

I honestly think anyone who does this is nuts. Yes, I know it's quite popular .

The biggest reason is simply that it totally distorts your perception of what the amp sounds like, or how loud it is. Pointed at your ears, it will sound far brighter and louder - so the temptation is to get a 'good tone' (actually for me that means really turning down the treble a long way, I hate the sound of a speaker pointed straight at me at short range), and set your volume about right for you - which means that for everyone else in the room, it will be too quiet and too muddy. If you're miked so much that the amp isn't really audible off the stage it's perhaps less of an issue, but it still doesn't tell you what the amp is really sounding like out front, unless the soundman mikes the center of the speaker and then leaves the EQ dead flat (which I've never, ever seen one do), and it's hard to put back missing top-end in a way that sounds good.

Equally, a small combo on the floor is no good either, you'll set the amp far too loud and bright to compensate for your ears being so far off-axis. All the experience I've had (I quite often go out front with a long cord at soundchecks if I can, and also take other people's opinions on my sound seriously) is that having the amp about waist-high and upright gives the best representation of the out-front tone and level when you're standing a few feet from it.

Secondly (the reason I mentioned it this thread) tilting it raises the volume you need in order to get controlled feedback, since the amp isn't pointing at the guitar any more.

I also think pointing a speaker straight at your ears like that is likely to be worse for your hearing, even compared to slightly louder and not directly at them - although I don't have any factual evidence, just the perception I get when the monitors are too loud (I also hate having my guitar in them for all these reasons).

There's also a small possibility that tilting the amp may be bad for it - some (though few) tube types don't like being operated off vertical, and on most combos it will also allow heat to build up under the chassis, where the hot air will more easily become trapped.


How many pro touring bands do you see with the amps tilted?

I think that is some of the best advice out there.


If that all seems too much information I'd summarise it by saying:
1. I think that having a cab with a removable back panel to open or close it is a great idea. You get two different sounding cabs for the price of one.
2. Cab positioning is all important. Put them where they sound best, not just where they look best!
3. Run 2x12s vertically. Everybody will hear you better!!!

My 3 Eurocents anyway...


Andy.

[Mystic38]

my bad... but hey!.. to be expected since my 2c USD is half as much as 3c Eu

the speakers in closed back cabs are more damped by the trapped air so the bass response is tighter. (Not the same as 'deeper' BTW, just more controlled and defined!)
My 3 Eurocents anyway...


Andy.