Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Post Reply
BrianFantana
Orange Master
Posts: 2189
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:26 am
Location: USA

Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by BrianFantana » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:14 pm

Anyone have experience with putting a SS rectifier in your AD30?

If so - what are the results?
Did it catch on fire, or rock your world?

0000
Orange Hero
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:37 pm
Location: LA, CA

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by 0000 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:13 pm

It's safe to do. However be aware, it will increase overall B+ (plate voltage) by 10-20%.

Because there is no warm up of a rectifier tube when using a solid state device, it is critical that a standby switch is used that will allow the power tube filaments to warm up and generate an electron 'cloud' around the cathode before high voltage is applied. This will prevent 'cathode stripping' in the power tubes. It is a good idea to use a standby switch when using vacuum tube rectification, but it is critical when using solid state rectification.

Sound results... less bass, tighter low end. However, I never felt this was really a problem that needed changing with the AD30. You'd get better results by upgrading to a nicer quality tube like a Gold Lion GZ34 for the 5AR4 that's in there now.

Putting solid state ANYTHING into a tube amp just seems sacrilegious.
Image
-Electrical Guitar Company "Buzzo" Double-Cut, Solid Aluminum, Gold Anodized.
-Gronlund Newcomb Custom aluminum hollow-body guitar.
-Matchless Phoenix 35 w/ Matchless 4x10 Cabinet

Les Paul Lover
Duke of Orange
Posts: 6786
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Derby, England

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:44 pm

Fewer valve amps have valve rectifier, and the non valve rectifed are still plenty good.

Nothing sacrilegious about it, it's more valve snobbery really. ;)


It's meant to make them tighter sounding, losing the sag typical of valve rectified amps,as demonstrated with the Ad30. Tone.
Last edited by Les Paul Lover on Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, PPC212
And.... Genz Benz Black Pearl 30
Past Orange: AD30TC Combo, TT, AD5


Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Ronnie Robinson
Orange Master
Posts: 3148
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 3:39 am
Location: In the beautyful North , UK
Contact:

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:56 pm

No idea but I dont really know why want to........
Orange AD30 HTC
Orange Rocker 15 terror
Orange Tiny Terror HW,
Fender elite Start, Gibson SG 61,fender telecaster

Previously Owned - Rocker 30
Image

BrianFantana
Orange Master
Posts: 2189
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:26 am
Location: USA

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by BrianFantana » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:10 pm

I'll be the judge of what's "sacrilege" for my amp. 8)

LOL at "valve snobbery." I think there's truth in it, though.
He is right about the plate voltage change; the "rush", particularly.


Tighter response, not necessarily a change in "tone" is what I seek.
I've got new(er) JJs in the amp -

I may put the stock tubes back in the non - phase inverter slots to see what happens.

jontheid
Orange Expert
Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:05 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by jontheid » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:36 pm

Because there is no warm up of a rectifier tube when using a solid state device, it is critical that a standby switch is used that will allow the power tube filaments to warm up and generate an electron 'cloud' around the cathode before high voltage is applied. This will prevent 'cathode stripping' in the power tubes. It is a good idea to use a standby switch when using vacuum tube rectification, but it is critical when using solid state rectification.
No it isn't.
Please read:
http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/standby.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/vie ... =1&t=45331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've got a valve amp from 1972 with no standby switch, the original Mullard EL84s are still working fine, it has a solid state rectifier.
Lots of old valve audio equipment have solid state rectifiers with no standby switches and work just fine, for many many years.

Cheers
Jon

a.hun
Duke of Orange
Posts: 9764
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by a.hun » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:44 pm

BrianFantana wrote:Anyone have experience with putting a SS rectifier in your AD30?

If so - what are the results?
Did it catch on fire, or rock your world?
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... te#p617494" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
0000 wrote:It's safe to do. However be aware, it will increase overall B+ (plate voltage) by 10-20%.
Need to be sure that the filter caps are rated for a high enough voltage to cope with that. Otherwise expect :twisted: things to happen. (Not good!) Electrolytic caps don't take well to over-voltages!


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

BrianFantana
Orange Master
Posts: 2189
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:26 am
Location: USA

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by BrianFantana » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:53 pm

BOOM! :shock:

Thanks for the link; I didn't have time to search for the thread (on my phone at work) and my cell service is terrible there.

Ade
Orange Hero
Posts: 320
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:36 am
Location: FNQ, Australia

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by Ade » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:44 pm

jontheid wrote:
Because there is no warm up of a rectifier tube when using a solid state device, it is critical that a standby switch is used that will allow the power tube filaments to warm up and generate an electron 'cloud' around the cathode before high voltage is applied. This will prevent 'cathode stripping' in the power tubes. It is a good idea to use a standby switch when using vacuum tube rectification, but it is critical when using solid state rectification.
No it isn't.
Please read:
http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/standby.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/vie ... =1&t=45331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've got a valve amp from 1972 with no standby switch, the original Mullard EL84s are still working fine, it has a solid state rectifier.

Lots of old valve audio equipment have solid state rectifiers with no standby switches and work just fine, for many many years.

Cheers
Jon
This is a bit off topic but that valve wizard link was an interesting read. While most of it goes well over my head, this paragraph certainly got my attention:

On the other hand, leaving a cathode hot without any anode current flowing does lead to the very real effect of cathode poisoning, which reduces the gain (transconductance) of valves. Fortunately this phenomenon really only becomes significant if the valves are left on standby for hours on end.

I often leave my AD50 on standby, sometimes for hours if I'm in and out of my music room doing other things. I thought I was doing the right thing "keeping the valves warm" in between playing. :oops: Should I just be switching it off?

Ade
Orange AD15/12 - Orange AD50 - 1975 PPC412
Image

Randy Bass
Lord of Orange
Posts: 10149
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:44 am

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by Randy Bass » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:55 pm

I'd say a solid-state rectifier is worth a try if it's less sensitive to wall voltage irregularities than a rectifier tube. It sounds like the Sovtek SSR is supposed to sound tighter than the Weber, but that might just be internet nonsense.
_________________
Image

Janglin_Jack
Orange Hero
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:56 am
Location: USA

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by Janglin_Jack » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:18 am

The more gain, the more a SS recto would be best. I like tube recto for my amps..Fenders and Marshalls. If you want JCM800 type gain or more Solid State recto is the way to go. Anything less than say Judas Priest to Guns and Roses i would go Tube recto. just my opinion.

Mike
"...weak with evil and broken by the world."

fiveightandten
Orange Master
Posts: 3845
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Solid state rectifier - will it fry my AD30TC?

Post by fiveightandten » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:43 am

a.hun wrote:
BrianFantana wrote:Anyone have experience with putting a SS rectifier in your AD30?

If so - what are the results?
Did it catch on fire, or rock your world?
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... te#p617494" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
0000 wrote:It's safe to do. However be aware, it will increase overall B+ (plate voltage) by 10-20%.
Need to be sure that the filter caps are rated for a high enough voltage to cope with that. Otherwise expect :twisted: things to happen. (Not good!) Electrolytic caps don't take well to over-voltages!


Andy.
Filter caps in the AD30 are rated at 450V. IIRC, B+ in mine is around 360V, and mine runs a little hot. He should be fine.

I say do the math, and if your B+ will be within 450V, and the tubes aren't running too hot, go for it. Measure the static draw across the cathode resistor. IIRC, stock should be about 11V per pair. I see 12.5 or so. You'll probably see 15 or 16W or so per tube. That's reasonably hot. If it's much higher than that, it may behoove you to change the cathode resistors out for higher values.

If it's running within reasonable parameters and you like the sound, that's all that matters. However, the amp will still be cathode biased and still have no negative feedback loop. A lot of the loose feel comes from those attributes.
Ade wrote: I often leave my AD50 on standby, sometimes for hours if I'm in and out of my music room doing other things. I thought I was doing the right thing "keeping the valves warm" in between playing. :oops: Should I just be switching it off?

Ade
For hours? I'd turn the amp off.

That being said, I wouldn't sweat this stuff too much unless you're running expensive NOS tubes. Tubes can usually take a lot more than we give them credit for. These days I rely more and more on the "if it sounds right, it is right" mentality. Are your tubes worn from cathode poisoning? If the amp sounds good to you, who cares?

I recently re-tubed a friend's JCM800. He's owned the amp for 10 years and never replaced a single tube in it. He plays the amp cranked up literally on 10 multiple times a week. I pulled out a set of Sovtek EL34's of unknown age. The tubes were running at...get this...22W static plate dissipation. I don't know exactly what the Sovteks are rated for, but that's like 80 or 90% of the max...for at least 10 years!

I threw them on my tube tester, and they still had a little life left in them. :lol:

Anyways, we replaced the tubes because the amp wasn't sounding good anymore. He had me put it right back at 22W. If it sounds good, it is good.

-Nick
Image
'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
LP Standard || LP Studio || LP Custom Lite || Ric 620 || Ric 360 || MIA Tele || SG 61 RI

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 35 guests