Pedals/pedal board...seeking advise.

[husker tim]

Okay, let me start this by saying: I am by no means a pro player. I am in a band and just play bars and clubs for fun.

I have a Dual Terror with a PPC 212 OB cabinet which I am very happy with. But I have a couple of questions and I am seeking some advise on effects, pedals and pedal board.

So I am something of a novice when it comes to my knowledge of pedals and effects. What I have now is a Boss ME-50 multi-effects unit. I also have a classic Cry Baby wah, a Boss TU-2 tuner (I know the ME-50 has an on-board tuner but I don't like it as well). I also have a Boss OS-2 overdrive/distortion, a Boss MT-2 and a Big Muff Pi fuzz.

I know a lot of people don't like multi-effects units but it is so convenient when giging to just have the unit set up in advance for each song and go to that patch rather than clicking effects off and on all night. I usually use the expression pedal as a volume pedal for most songs.

So here is what I was considering...I was thinking of keeping my ME-50 and adding a series of individual effects (maybe incorporating the individual effects I have now with some new ones) giving me the freedom to flip back-and-forth between my ME-50 and the individual effects. I could use something like a Morley AB switch to switch back and forth.

I guess eventually I would like to switch to using only true bypass individual effects but maybe this would be a way to ease my way into it.

Thoughts? (be nice...remember, as I said above, I am something of a novice when it comes to effects)

[snickerpuss]

What styles do you play? Influences? How big do you think your pedalboard needs to be?

[Man1ak]

While your question is very broad and hard to answer in one go, I would say you start either from putting your ME-50 in the loop and use it for time based effects (delay, reverb) or modulation (chorus) and then use individual pedals in front of the amp - booster, overdrive, compressor, way; or the other way around by keeping the ME-50 in front of the amp and then use individual pedals in the loop. That would be your clean cut. And you can work your way from it. Considering that you already have some overdrive/distortion pedals I would start by putting the ME-50 in the loop. Multi-effects usually work very well with time based effects, provided that they don't add noise. If you like what you hear you're on to something. If you don't, then you're on to something else

[Jondog]

Careful, irs addictive! Personally I would nt go to all true bypass without some sort of buffer in there. Certain effects like fuzz dont always like a buffer before it, so that would be where yiu dont want a buffered bypass. But definitely need one after. Also a good power supply is essential to getting the best sound from your pedals unless you're using batteries.

[jax510]

it kinda depends on what individual effects you want and how many more. what were u thinjing of?

[joeminer]

Careful, irs addictive! Personally I would nt go to all true bypass without some sort of buffer in there. Certain effects like fuzz dont always like a buffer before it, so that would be where yiu dont want a buffered bypass. But definitely need one after. Also a good power supply is essential to getting the best sound from your pedals unless you're using batteries.

Won't the TU-2 work as a buffer?

+1 on a good power supply.

I agree on the addictive part. Probably still cheaper than crack.

[Jondog]

Careful, irs addictive! Personally I would nt go to all true bypass without some sort of buffer in there. Certain effects like fuzz dont always like a buffer before it, so that would be where yiu dont want a buffered bypass. But definitely need one after. Also a good power supply is essential to getting the best sound from your pedals unless you're using batteries.

Won't the TU-2 work as a buffer?

+1 on a good power supply.

I agree on the addictive part. Probably still cheaper than crack.

It will work. But if you're going with fuzz, put it after.

[husker tim]

Wow, I "THOUGHT" I was a novice before. Now I "KNOW" I am. Thank you all for you responses.

Snickerpuss: Right now I am in a blues/country/classic rock/60s British cover band...so there is a ton of variety in the tone and effects I need. As to your question:"How big do you think your pedalboard needs to be?"... I didn't have a real solid idea on how big. I just know I really like some effects by electro-harmonix (fuzz and delay) and a few other pedals such as OCD overdrive and I have heard some phasers and chorus pedals that I like better than the ones built into the ME-50. But the ME-50 is fine for some effects and like I said before....the pre-programing makes it very convenient at gigs for nuances of sound between songs. I don't have to reach down and adjust the knobs on the pedals for more or less distortion/reverb/chorus etc. I just set a different patch and hit one pedal.

Man1ak: I don't have an effects loop on my amp. Did you mean use the amp's effects loop or were you just saying put it in line with all the individual effects? Sorry for the dumb question...

Jondog: Power supply? I have a surge protector powerstip attached to my board and I have a One-spot daisy chain to power all the pedals (except the ME-50 which has its own powerpack). Is that not the way I should be powering my pedals? Damn...there is so much I don't know about this stuff.

[Jondog]

Those work, but they introduce noise as the pedals are sharing the same current. You want something like the voodoo lab pedal power or Trex fuel tank that has isolated power jacks . Don't fall for something cheaper like yhe Dunlop brick, it makes your pedals noisy even ehen tthey're off.

[Man1ak]

Man1ak: I don't have an effects loop on my amp. Did you mean use the amp's effects loop or were you just saying put it in line with all the individual effects? Sorry for the dumb question...

Yes, I meant the FX loop of the amp, but I misread your post. I thought you had a Dark Terror, sorry.

[a.hun]

Won't the TU-2 work as a buffer?

It will work. But if you're going with fuzz, put it after.

Yeah, it has a decent buffer. And a good buffer can really help maintain your signal. All 'true bypass' is rarely a good idea.

Check out these two threads, especially the posts by John Phillips who explains why that is so:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=240061" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=213206" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Yeah I'd say suck it and see. Some fuzzes can actually work okay after a buffer though most will sound worse. Experiment though and find which combinations work best for you. My motto is always "if it works for you, it works!"


Andy.

[husker tim]

Once again, thanks for all the replies.

Jondog: I looked up the two power supplies you mentioned and T-Rex has a Fuel Tank Junior that is very reasonably priced. In your opinion is it as good as the Voodoo Lab Pedal Power? If so...I will go for the one with the lower price point. However, it's only about $30 difference so if the Voodoo lab is significantly better, I guess it would be worth the extra???

a.hun: I checked out those links (thanks for posting them) as you stated, the posts by John Phillips were especially informative.

[MikeD]

my recommendations are:

don't go out and buy effects cause everyone else is using them!! Buy them after need...when you think.."man, this would be sweet with some Edge-type" delay"...then start your search. Google is awesome both for hunting prices and reviews. What you will need is a good board and powersupply....both of which I bought used. Get one that the top lifts off and already has a power supply...makes gig life much easier...

since you don't have a loop you'll have to try different lineups of pedals and everytime you add something new you're probably going to have to mix em up again;-)

Remember, even though your playing covers, its better to work with what you have and make your own sound rather than trying to copy many others. I had a multi effect to before I started finding my own tone and have now discarded it and try too keep my board simple and not screw with the quality tone decent equipment have given me. I too play in a cover band and I'll share what I use

*guitar- Gibson SG and an LP (without a good guitar there is no use in splurging on pedals...I swap guitars instead of trying to mimic sounds with a multi-effect. My other guitarist plays fender and gretsch so he plays the leads on the songs that require those tones)
*EMX micro amp- a boost is a must when soloing(just bought this one and so far its really impressed me with its tone and simplicity)
*dunlop rotovibe-phaser/hendricks like effect (its really cool but not a must)
*dunlop cb95- basic wah-wah (this gets quite a bit of use)
*dunlop volume pedal-(makes for easy adjusting seeing that I suck at using the pots on my guitar whilst playing and singing)
*polytune- probably the most important piece of equipment on my board...really love it!!
*rockerverb 50 mkll - no need for reverb on my board
loop
*boss eq- really have had no use for this lately
*boss dd-5 - this has pretty much everything I need in delay and the option of using an external tap-tempo which is great and less confusing when playing live

hope this was of some help and watch out for GAS when it comes to pedals:-P

[snickerpuss]

Snickerpuss: Right now I am in a blues/country/classic rock/60s British cover band...so there is a ton of variety in the tone and effects I need. As to your question:"How big do you think your pedalboard needs to be?"... I didn't have a real solid idea on how big. I just know I really like some effects by electro-harmonix (fuzz and delay) and a few other pedals such as OCD overdrive and I have heard some phasers and chorus pedals that I like better than the ones built into the ME-50. But the ME-50 is fine for some effects and like I said before....the pre-programing makes it very convenient at gigs for nuances of sound between songs. I don't have to reach down and adjust the knobs on the pedals for more or less distortion/reverb/chorus etc. I just set a different patch and hit one pedal.

When it comes to covers, I think multieffects units like your boss are the way to go. The ability to call up patches to switch from some protopunk attitude to psychadelic delay ridden pink floyd to chimey beatles tone in a split second is damn valuable. Having said that, everyone likes new toys and I'll bet you could find a stompbox that has a better tone than each and every effect in that ME-50 without much effort. BUT ask just about anyone in the audience and they will not care or notice whether you played that U2 song with the multifx delay or the vintage deluxe memory man. The problem gets out of hand when you have multiple chorus units phasers, delays, and dirt boxes set for single songs instead of tweaking their settings between songs. Perhaps a pro multi effects midi unit like the TC G system would be your dream setup. http://www.zzounds.com/item--TCEGSYSTEM
If you want to stick with multi effects units, that's pretty much the grail, though Echo and the Bunnymen's Will Sergeant told me in an interview he's always loved the big Boss effects units like yours and he uses a GT-8 still today. If you're interested, ask Billy Claire about them, he's got the g-system. Not many of us use multifx units on this forum, but he does and he knows his stuff.

In the meantime, check out this post http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pedals/ ... layer.html

I don't think of orange amps when I think of multifx unit setups, though. Usually it's fender amps with a high output wattage and unbreakable clean headroom to use as a blank slate for all your effects and modeling, so I would advise you simplify your setup, switch from the multifx unit and get a small pedal board with a few versatile and inspiring pieces of gear. With one channel of your DT set to clean and one to dirty, my board would consist of fuzz, tuner, wah, compressor, overdrive/eq, phaser, flanger/chorus, delay. I guarantee you can find find all the settings to make the crowd go wild and inspire yourself in those late night jams with those pedals. In a basic basic board like that, you learn how to make phasers imitate rotarys and flangers imitate chorus pedals and tremelos. Set the delay to the shortest setting and raise the feedback, and bam instant reverb, and 99.9% of the audience won't know the difference.

Cover bands get all the good gigs and it's important to be quick with the setup and tear down of your rig. For that reason, I would not do both the pedalboard and the fx unit, just because it would essentially be like carrying 2 pedalboards and one is already enough of a PITA.

Once again, thanks for all the replies.

Jondog: I looked up the two power supplies you mentioned and T-Rex has a Fuel Tank Junior that is very reasonably priced. In your opinion is it as good as the Voodoo Lab Pedal Power? If so...I will go for the one with the lower price point. However, it's only about $30 difference so if the Voodoo lab is significantly better, I guess it would be worth the extra???

a.hun: I checked out those links (thanks for posting them) as you stated, the posts by John Phillips were especially informative.

This one is comparable in price to the T-rex and more versatile; however, I highly recommend you do your homework, search your soul and wallet, and demo your way to the perfect pedalboard before buying a power supply and learning that your dream pedals require higher mA and different voltages than your power supply offers.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... wer-supply

Good luck!

[husker tim]

Snickerpuss: Very thorough response and some great advise. I know it takes a lot of time to sit down and respond to these questions and I want you to know how much I appreciate it (yours and the others who have responded...great message board).

That G-system looks awesome...but that $1350.00 is a little out of my price range.

I have to admit, I was not aware of some of the pitfalls of running "true bypass" pedals. I just hear people rave about them and talk about signal loss etc. with the Boss or Digitech type pedals...so I guess I was just sort of caught up in the hype.

You are right...perhaps the little nuanced difference in sound I would get from individual pedals wouldn't be worth the trouble and in the end the ME-50 may work best for my situation. I think however I am going to keep the pedals I do have and continue to use them all I have my ME-50 attached to my board along with my Cry Baby, TU-2, Boss OS-2, MT-2 and Big Muff Pi. I am going to invest in a solid power unit for the single pedals and Wah and continue to run an individual power supply for the ME-50.

So I guess this begs another question...what order should I run all the pedals in? I now sure from reading the many responses and links above that I don't have things in the right order.