Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

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enricoromanielo
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Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by enricoromanielo » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:42 pm

I play guitar and sing, used to be in a power trio and loved it!

But our bass player decided to quit the band after our first gig, and it was a while untill I got into a new band - this time a four piece, I play rytyhym guitar and sing.

However, I am having the most difficult time to adjust the volumes of the two guitars... Not sure if the lead guitar player just cranks his guitar up too much, or I set mine rig wrong, or if it is bad placement during the reharsals... The thing is that I can´t hear my guitar and sometimes not even my voice - which screws up my singing... On the other hand, if we just turn down all the guitars, the drums are extremely loud... I miss being in a power trio... So much simpler!!

Anyone have any issue with that?I
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by Hubaxe » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:51 pm

you mentioned already placement. Amp have to be oriented the tight way. If the lead guitar has his amp on the floor, 1 m behind him, sure he'll have to crank up because human does not hear very well with the feet :D
Then discussion and self assessment of all musicians is the key.

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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by MikeD » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:58 pm

....it's always the bass player!!! ;-) We've had some issues in my 4 piece and its cause myself and the bassist are fighting over some of the sane frequencies due to the depth of the orange

really work on amp placement and than soundcheck!!!...drums then bass then guitars. If people can't hear themselves then they can adjust eq's and not volumes. Explain to the band that loud will only lead to muck and unhappy pub owners/listeners and your concerns about it...if they don't take it seriously you might as well move on.
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by Ronnie Robinson » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:23 pm

Its a common problem .....

Can a sound check be done at the start of practise to get the levels right with drums?
Does he stand right next to (or over) his cab so he cant hear it ...maybe he should stand a good few feet in front of it?
How does he respond to 'Any chance you can turn down' If he's the lead guitarist does he need to be playing loud all the time? surely there are parts where he can sit back in the mix?

Does he use a Cab on the floor or a Combo on a stand?- Can your Cab be raised up? I have a stand for my own 2x12 cab which raises it about a foot ...I think this makes a real difference in hearing myself when there are no monitors.

Does he use an Amp that can more easily cuts through a band mix than an Orange Amp? Can you play with less gain?
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by Gladmarr » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:06 pm

Same sentiment as above. You've gotta place your amp so it's shooting at your head-holes. Also, if you guys are playing guitars and amps that sound similar, you're going to be taking up the same frequency band, so you won't be able to tell each other apart. Usually, rhythm guitar should have less gain than lead, but I'm not necessarily one for tradition. The other issue is that guitar and vocals take up a lot of the same frequency band as well, so your vocals are going to be competing as well.

It sounds like a mess to sort out. I'd say just kick out the lead guy and make it a power trio. 8)

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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by Moon » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:31 pm

Ronnie Robinson wrote:Its a common problem .....

Can a sound check be done at the start of practise to get the levels right with drums?
Does he stand right next to (or over) his cab so he cant hear it ...maybe he should stand a good few feet in front of it?
How does he respond to 'Any chance you can turn down' If he's the lead guitarist does he need to be playing loud all the time? surely there are parts where he can sit back in the mix?

Does he use a Cab on the floor or a Combo on a stand?- Can your Cab be raised up? I have a stand for my own 2x12 cab which raises it about a foot ...I think this makes a real difference in hearing myself when there are no monitors.

Does he use an Amp that can more easily cuts through a band mix than an Orange Amp? Can you play with less gain?
+1 with everything said by Ronnie
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by enricoromanielo » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:20 pm

Thanks guys.

I am going to try something different next rehearsal and see what happens. Will let you know.

Cheers!
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by a.hun » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:26 am

MikeD wrote:....it's always the bass player!!! ;-)
We've had some issues in my 4 piece and its cause myself and the bassist are fighting over some of the sane frequencies due to the depth of the orange

really work on amp placement and than soundcheck!!!...drums then bass then guitars. If people can't hear themselves then they can adjust eq's and not volumes. Explain to the band that loud will only lead to muck and unhappy pub owners/listeners and your concerns about it...if they don't take it seriously you might as well move on.
Oh yeah? :wink:
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... 70#p505970" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMO it is all about the band mix! If one player (whichever instrument) is playing silly buggers with volume than they need reminded about that. Maybe they can't hear themselves properly, but they are probably the only ones...
(Loved the comment about not hearing so well with your feet. Said much the same about my own knees in that linked post!) :lol:

Yeah totally agree about amp placement - really important. And that is also why I now far prefer amps / cabs with a good sound spread rather than beamers. Just makes it so much easier to set up decent mixes at different venues.

Do love 3 piece bands though. Would love to do that some more myself.


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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by everdrone » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:32 pm

I am predominantly a bassist. guitarists try to step all over my frequencies!

my fundamental frequencies are lower than theirs. they need to subtractive EQ their sound along with me. also, they need to get an adjustable angle amp stand like me to aim at their earholez@!
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by maven » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:43 pm

enricoromanielo wrote:I play guitar and sing, used to be in a power trio and loved it!

But our bass player decided to quit the band after our first gig, and it was a while untill I got into a new band - this time a four piece, I play rytyhym guitar and sing.

However, I am having the most difficult time to adjust the volumes of the two guitars... Not sure if the lead guitar player just cranks his guitar up too much, or I set mine rig wrong, or if it is bad placement during the reharsals... The thing is that I can´t hear my guitar and sometimes not even my voice - which screws up my singing... On the other hand, if we just turn down all the guitars, the drums are extremely loud... I miss being in a power trio... So much simpler!!

Anyone have any issue with that?I
We/I have been having the same problem with a 2 guitar band- so frustrating, especially because I play by ear, I actually even replaced the amp I was using and bought my first orange amp (rv 50 mk1) in june thinking this might be a solution. We have only gotten to jam once with my new amp and his (Mesa Triple Rectifier) it actually did a better job than my Randall V2 Archetype, but our drummer wasn't there so it wasn't the best test. Now it looks like he might be quitting anyways lol. But I am totally stoked I bought my Orange!!!! And my band says with my RV- and my love for effects and pedals, we don't need another guitarist. \m/ :D
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by maven » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:46 pm

Ronnie Robinson wrote:Its a common problem .....

Can a sound check be done at the start of practise to get the levels right with drums?
Does he stand right next to (or over) his cab so he cant hear it ...maybe he should stand a good few feet in front of it?
How does he respond to 'Any chance you can turn down' If he's the lead guitarist does he need to be playing loud all the time? surely there are parts where he can sit back in the mix?

Does he use a Cab on the floor or a Combo on a stand?- Can your Cab be raised up? I have a stand for my own 2x12 cab which raises it about a foot ...I think this makes a real difference in hearing myself when there are no monitors.

Does he use an Amp that can more easily cuts through a band mix than an Orange Amp? Can you play with less gain?
Do you have a pic of your stand? I have a tilted one that I used when used to play my combo amp, but wasn't sure if a 2x12 cab/head configuration would work on it? Would love to see what you are using!
RV 50 MKI & 2x12 PPC
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by Boy_Narf » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:47 pm

In one band we tried running opposite EQ settings. Have one guy with a scooped tone, and the other with a reverse scoop? Lets both guitars sit in the mix and complement each other. The other guitar player was using a Triple Rectum so naturally he had it scooped hah. I just bumped up my mids and filled in the missing sonic space.

The biggest challenge will be convincing the other guy to change his EQ. Us guitar players are interesting creatures.
Last edited by Boy_Narf on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by maven » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:48 pm

Comforting to read this thread. I was having a lot of trouble and I thought it was just me and my lack of experience.... THANKS for sharing!
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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by Boy_Narf » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:58 pm

TBH when I was in that band I could never hear myself. The directional nature of a PPC412 I guess. I had my RV100 just cooking... gain and volume around 3 oclock if I remember correctly. We were so loud I had the clean channel breaking up hah! I could never really hear my amp unless my ear was right next to it. All the band members agreed. I would try another brand of cab if I were you, or even an open back to see if that helps. Perhaps try cranking the treble to see if it cuts through a bit more.

I was always shocked that I had to nearly pin my RV100 to keep up a Triple Rectum on 2.

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Re: Having trouble with a two-guitar band...

Post by everdrone » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:20 pm

maven wrote:
Ronnie Robinson wrote:Its a common problem .....

Can a sound check be done at the start of practise to get the levels right with drums?
Does he stand right next to (or over) his cab so he cant hear it ...maybe he should stand a good few feet in front of it?
How does he respond to 'Any chance you can turn down' If he's the lead guitarist does he need to be playing loud all the time? surely there are parts where he can sit back in the mix?

Does he use a Cab on the floor or a Combo on a stand?- Can your Cab be raised up? I have a stand for my own 2x12 cab which raises it about a foot ...I think this makes a real difference in hearing myself when there are no monitors.

Does he use an Amp that can more easily cuts through a band mix than an Orange Amp? Can you play with less gain?
Do you have a pic of your stand? I have a tilted one that I used when used to play my combo amp, but wasn't sure if a 2x12 cab/head configuration would work on it? Would love to see what you are using!
I have this stand: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... 7AodfioAiQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

only drawback is too much angle makes it fall over, but you will never need that much angle!
My solo downtuned HEAVY rock project: https://soundcloud.com/earthalliance

Guitarist and Bassist in Fort Worth, TEXAS
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