Bass amps advice...

[Wendigo]

I've recently decided that I'm gonna practise bass and take lessons, to move from "competent bass player" to "pro". I'm gonna buy a Fender jazz bass or p-bass depending on which I like best, but I also need an amp, which I don't have a lot of experience with. What are some of the classics for bass? So far I've looked at Hartke, Eden (woah) and Ampeg as a start. I guess I'm looking at playing sutff like, Flea, John Bonham, Jamiroquai, and just rock/metal In general, but with the sound of those guys I listed more or less. Geddy Lee has an awesome tone I find too. Basically thick and punchy as hell but defined with loads of bottom end.

Right now I have an Ibanez bass and an old Warwick amp which sounds like a ball of socks being shot out of the tailpipe of a Buick, which ain't good. I will only buy a passive bass, and I want a head and cab. 4 Ohms maybe would be best....or is it?

[a.hun]

Horses for courses. What sort of power levels are you looking at? What sort of cab configuration, single or multiple driver? Is weight an issue? Would you consider a good combo? (If so try a s/h Ampeg B-100R, affordable and much much more effective than a 100W s.s. combo has any right to be.)

Frankly though these days there is just so much choice. You can get masses of amp power (at very low weight) for very reasonable money. Cabs can also be light but then you can expect to pay a lot more for that luxury.

Hartke, Ampeg, Eden, all good possibles. I'd add Markbass (recently discovered them, very impressed), Peavey (always surprisingly good IMO!), Traynor, Ashdown, TC Electronic, Gallien-Kruger, Hughes & Kettner, EBS, lets not forget Orange. Going more upmarket think Glockenklang, Tecamp (nice!!!), Hiwatt (very nice!!!) Aguilar, Bergantino, Mesa Boogie...

I'm forgetting plenty here, but you get the idea. More clues needed!


Andy.

[wbm]

If you want something very light - and awesome sounding - check out these:
Gallien-Krueger MB212-II
at 500 Watt at 37 pounds
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MB212-II" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

or it's little brother:
Gallien-Krueger MB112-II
at 200 Watt at 28 pounds
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MB112-II/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also comes as 1x15
Gallien-Krueger MB115-II
at 200 Watt a whopping 35 pounds
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MB115-II/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They all sound really really good and the 500 Watt model can easily handle outdoor gigs.

[Boy_Narf]

I highly recommend the Traynor Small block series. Wicked value! I got a brand new SB115 for half price thanks to a lucky Kijiji transfer. It sounds great! Bump up the two mid knobs and you get a nice sounding overdrive.

If you are wanting something a little bigger, There is a SB500 head. Right now my budget dream rig is the SB500 head with the Traynor TC1015 cab (2X10 and 1X15 in one cab).

If I had a little bit more money to spend I''m thinking I would go for an Orange TB500, and a OBC115. I have heard wonderful things about this combo.

I will also mention that the new Fender Rumble amps (V3) look amazing! IMO they have the best value for money.

Good luck.

[OrangePaul]

Maybe your YJM would work great on bass with the right cab setup! Seriously...

[Boy_Narf]

That's a great point actually. Perhaps take the head into your favorite music store and test out a few different cabs.

[3l3phantstomp]

The issue, my brother in four strings, is the tendency to be D.I.'d by mothereffing default. They even prefer dry signals when recording. I roll an Orange TB500 into their SP212 and it is heaven for all occasions. But you can spend as much as you want on a rig and then it comes time for soundcheck and the dude hands you a metal box. Then you have two choices: leave your sonic thumbprint in the hands of a stranger or spend half your sound check having a discussion about not DI'ing you and if he has that extra mic and cable.

So ask yourself first if you are going to start by planning on playing live or working on your chops at home and then jump in the sea. If you are at home working on your sound, get a 15" combo. You can score an SWR workingman's 15, or a Peavey TNT used for not much at all. These will even serve you live for most models have the DI-out the soundguy wants and you still get useable stage volumne for your sanity.

If you are already there and ready to part the whiskers of the people, save up and get a at least a 500w rig. I suggest Head + Cab due to the versatility of having multiple cabs for multiple situations (say a 15" + 2x10"s...you can roll the just the 15 or just the 2x10's for intimate gigs, combo them both for the medium/large). G&K seems to be the preferred entry level in my area, but really you should vamp a big box store and try as many as you can or order online from a place that will take anything back no matter what. There wasn't a single store around me that would stock Orange bass heads so I had to fire blind with a guarentee that if it wasn't my huckleberry I could hand it back. And thank the bass gods I did!

Lastly, budget in a Mic for your cab, a decent length cable, and a small stand or cab grabber mic holder. Then you can hand them to the soundguy when he hands you the DI box. Either way thump on good brother and jump in every situation that presents itself reguardless of genre.

[everdrone]

I own this one:

If you want something very light - and awesome sounding - check out these:
Gallien-Krueger MB212-II
at 500 Watt at 37 pounds
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MB212-II" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I never got along with 115 bass combos, I just cannot hear em over a half stack type guitarist!

[bassdrop]

The issue, my brother in four strings, is the tendency to be D.I.'d by mothereffing default. They even prefer dry signals when recording. I roll an Orange TB500 into their SP212 and it is heaven for all occasions. But you can spend as much as you want on a rig and then it comes time for soundcheck and the dude hands you a metal box. Then you have two choices: leave your sonic thumbprint in the hands of a stranger or spend half your sound check having a discussion about not DI'ing you and if he has that extra mic and cable.

So ask yourself first if you are going to start by planning on playing live or working on your chops at home and then jump in the sea. If you are at home working on your sound, get a 15" combo. You can score an SWR workingman's 15, or a Peavey TNT used for not much at all. These will even serve you live for most models have the DI-out the soundguy wants and you still get useable stage volumne for your sanity.

If you are already there and ready to part the whiskers of the people, save up and get a at least a 500w rig. I suggest Head + Cab due to the versatility of having multiple cabs for multiple situations (say a 15" + 2x10"s...you can roll the just the 15 or just the 2x10's for intimate gigs, combo them both for the medium/large). G&K seems to be the preferred entry level in my area, but really you should vamp a big box store and try as many as you can or order online from a place that will take anything back no matter what. There wasn't a single store around me that would stock Orange bass heads so I had to fire blind with a guarentee that if it wasn't my huckleberry I could hand it back. And thank the bass gods I did!

Lastly, budget in a Mic for your cab, a decent length cable, and a small stand or cab grabber mic holder. Then you can hand them to the soundguy when he hands you the DI box. Either way thump on good brother and jump in every situation that presents itself reguardless of genre.

I always bring my own Radial DI since most often sound guys are rolling up with Whirlwind or Behringers that aren't worth anything. Plus, and especially if you're running a tube head, you can run it inline with your cab from the speaker output and get much closer to a mic sound without having to bother with a mic and stand setup. I still swear by the old Eden Nemesis combos as some of the best sounding inexpensive bass gear around. You can find them used too and they're built like tanks and not super heavy.

[3l3phantstomp]

The issue, my brother in four strings, is the tendency to be D.I.'d by mothereffing default. They even prefer dry signals when recording. I roll an Orange TB500 into their SP212 and it is heaven for all occasions. But you can spend as much as you want on a rig and then it comes time for soundcheck and the dude hands you a metal box. Then you have two choices: leave your sonic thumbprint in the hands of a stranger or spend half your sound check having a discussion about not DI'ing you and if he has that extra mic and cable.

So ask yourself first if you are going to start by planning on playing live or working on your chops at home and then jump in the sea. If you are at home working on your sound, get a 15" combo. You can score an SWR workingman's 15, or a Peavey TNT used for not much at all. These will even serve you live for most models have the DI-out the soundguy wants and you still get useable stage volumne for your sanity.

If you are already there and ready to part the whiskers of the people, save up and get a at least a 500w rig. I suggest Head + Cab due to the versatility of having multiple cabs for multiple situations (say a 15" + 2x10"s...you can roll the just the 15 or just the 2x10's for intimate gigs, combo them both for the medium/large). G&K seems to be the preferred entry level in my area, but really you should vamp a big box store and try as many as you can or order online from a place that will take anything back no matter what. There wasn't a single store around me that would stock Orange bass heads so I had to fire blind with a guarentee that if it wasn't my huckleberry I could hand it back. And thank the bass gods I did!

Lastly, budget in a Mic for your cab, a decent length cable, and a small stand or cab grabber mic holder. Then you can hand them to the soundguy when he hands you the DI box. Either way thump on good brother and jump in every situation that presents itself reguardless of genre.

I always bring my own Radial DI since most often sound guys are rolling up with Whirlwind or Behringers that aren't worth anything. Plus, and especially if you're running a tube head, you can run it inline with your cab from the speaker output and get much closer to a mic sound without having to bother with a mic and stand setup. I still swear by the old Eden Nemesis combos as some of the best sounding inexpensive bass gear around. You can find them used too and they're built like tanks and not super heavy.

Heard on the Radial! The soundgentlemen are starting to like my DI out on the TB500 more and more once I tell them to ignore their visual eq levels and use their ears (IE trust it). The signal looks "hotter" than it sounds...its wild. Thanks for the DI suggestion.

[ironlung40]

I loved the AD200 MKII when I tried it, very expensive though! But, Geddy rocks one these days doesn't he?

Really, if it were me, I would be looking at an old Ampeg V4 or V4B, very reasonable prices on the used market. But, with that being said, tubes are not as straight up in those with the 7027A's, however you could bias in another type to make it easier....

Also, those amps are very, very heavy....with that in mind, and if portability was a factor, I would look no further than the Orange Tiny Bass heads....I have heard those sound good as well...Not sure though as I haven't played through any.

All of the suggestions Andy and others made are most likely very good too.

the marshall Ywingie you have would probably be good too as I know lots of bands recorde bass with SLP's anyway....


Oh, almost forgot, the Acoustic brand bass amps SS, are good too. I think zeppelin used those back in the day. The company has made a comeback. The Toadies bass player, Tony Blair, uses one and that band used to use Ampeg SVT's. They sound dang good live. I actually bought an Acoustic 200 watt SS combo with a 1x15 in it. It sound great too and it was around $300. Anyway, the prices seem right on those, and I have heard good things about them other than my experiences with them. If I had it to do over, i would have got a head and a cab instead of the combo. I am looking to sell my combo though, as the reason I bought it was to have a bass amp for jam sessions at my house, but I no longer do that anymore.

[a.hun]

I've recently decided that I'm gonna practise bass and take lessons, to move from "competent bass player" to "pro". I'm gonna buy a Fender jazz bass or p-bass depending on which I like best, but I also need an amp, which I don't have a lot of experience with. What are some of the classics for bass? So far I've looked at Hartke, Eden (woah) and Ampeg as a start. I guess I'm looking at playing sutff like, Flea, John Bonham, Jamiroquai, and just rock/metal In general, but with the sound of those guys I listed more or less. Geddy Lee has an awesome tone I find too. Basically thick and punchy as hell but defined with loads of bottom end.

Right now I have an Ibanez bass and an old Warwick amp which sounds like a ball of socks being shot out of the tailpipe of a Buick, which ain't good. I will only buy a passive bass, and I want a head and cab. 4 Ohms maybe would be best....or is it?

Hey Wendigo, what's up? Any further forward? Can we help narrow things down any for you?

Do you need valves? You willing to go s.s.? Are weight / cost big issues?

Must it be a head / cab rig? Only reason I'm asking is that there are plenty seriously good combos out there and then you don't need to worry about matching head / cabs tonally or otherwise. With many (but not all) combos you can add ext. cabs for bigger gigs anyway, as long as you are sorted on impedance / power handling / tonal issues. But not all cabs will work equally well with all amps, so combos do make a lot of sense, either small ones or bigger ones which'll easily handle bigger gigs.

Back to basics: What's up with the Ibanez / Warwick? Both should be decent, neither makes have ever tended to put out rubbish - quite the opposite IME! Which models are they?

Tried new strings on the Ibanez? How long has it been? (Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know but many starting on bass don't realise this. )

From the sounds you list it doesn't sound like you want flats, so roundwounds then. Bass strings are more expensive but also go off quicker than guitar strings IMO. Especially roundwounds!
For any real sizzle they need to be fairly new / clean. In a recording session I can easily hear new ones going off over the course of a day session. Keeping them as clean as poss. helps a lot. (I use Fast Fret, usually both before and after playing, means I can use strings for weeks / months instead of days / weeks.)

Anyway you can't tell much about how a bass or amp sounds if the strings are dead. The difference with new ones is night and day. If they've been sitting there for years get new ones on...
Either that or (taking care!) bung the old ones in some Methylated spirit for a day.
http://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-stri ... s-strings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Works better and way longer than boiling them. Like I say bass strings are expensive so these tricks are worthwhile. (Does work for guitar strings too of course, but by the time Fast Fret / good cleaning stops working they are usually pretty shot anyway so I wouldn't bother!)

So, fresh strings and you'll be able to tell how the Warwick amp sounds. If you do need another amp than the two most important things for great bass sounds are EQ and compression (/ limiting).
(Compression less so with valve amps as they have more natural compression. Many s.s amps will have separate controllable compression (/ limiting), but others - even very good ones - may just have some sort of speaker saving automatic comp / limiting built in. Either way some control on dynamics is important not just for the speakers but also for the sounds and playing feel. Good compressors used right don't suck all the feel and tone, they can really enhance both!)

Good EQ is the single most important thing for getting good sounds though. Used to be that most s.s. bass amps had multi band graphic EQs with 7+ sliders as well as separate bass / treble controls. Fashions change and many now have simpler 3 or 4 band EQs. That's fine, with nice 4 band ones (eg. bass, low mids, high mids, treble) you can get most basic bass sounds you'd ever want. Good 3 bands work fine on many amps too but you might eventually want more control with a good external EQ.

BTW, why the hate for active basses? (Did you let an active guitar put you off? Don't!)
Sure, no problems sticking to passive basses. But good active basses basically have good preamps giving you more EQ control. I have both active and passive basses, and both can sound great. Two main things with active basses? 1/ Make sure you can bypass the preamp if needed and run it passive, either for setting up your basic core sounds or in case of battery failure. 2/ Make sure you actually like how the controls work.

Has to be said that many active basses always sound better with the preamp switched in, even with the tone controls set neutral. (In that case you'll end up using them powered most of the time. My old fretless Aria is like that.) With really good ones though you shouldn't hear any big difference until you actually tweak the EQ. I mainly use my new Marleaux fretless in passive mode - the volume and pickup balance controls give me plenty of sound variations. Sometimes a wee (or not so wee) tweak of the low / mids / high is handy for some sounds though. But don't sweat it, with good amp EQ you can go a long long way with either a simple passive 'P' or 'J' bass.

Anyway... what's up?


Andy.

[everdrone]

just throwing out there the issues with speaker phasing when mixing different sized speakers:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/confusi ... ad.956887/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Wendigo]

Hey thanks for all the responses. So....


Yes tubes, yes head and cab. The warwick sounds passable but it's a combo and sounds like it. Just ok really. The ibanez is lacking punch that no new strings will help with (though the strings are quite new and really clean). I'm for sure getting a J-bass, and I think the best might be to just roll up to the local music megastore and just start trying amps. I must say that I recently heard a head and 4x10 cab from Hartke (with the aluminum cones) with a jazz bass copy that sounded incredible. The thing is, it was live and running through a big PA so there's no telling how much was bass and how much was PA.

[a.hun]

just throwing out there the issues with speaker phasing when mixing different sized speakers:

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/confusi ... ad.956887/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep, can be an issue. It isn't so much different sized speakers, just with different drivers if they work against each other. Different sized drivers can work well together too though.
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.p ... rs#p587368" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey thanks for all the responses. So....

Yes tubes, yes head and cab. The warwick sounds passable but it's a combo and sounds like it. Just ok really. The ibanez is lacking punch that no new strings will help with (though the strings are quite new and really clean). I'm for sure getting a J-bass, and I think the best might be to just roll up to the local music megastore and just start trying amps. I must say that I recently heard a head and 4x10 cab from Hartke (with the aluminum cones) with a jazz bass copy that sounded incredible. The thing is, it was live and running through a big PA so there's no telling how much was bass and how much was PA.

Okay, valves then. Try a Hiwatt (/ Reeves), or Orange, or Ampeg, or Traynor. Few more out there. Maybe this?
http://www.tecamp.de/en/products/amlifi ... l#overview" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On cabs, I used a decent 4x10 for years but like all 2x2 driver format cabs they are beamers so the sound spread isn't good. What you hear right in front of the cab isn't at all the same as above / below / beside the line of fire. Makes setting up sounds difficult and you won't be nearly so audible to the sides. I'd suggest trying some vertical 2x12s - everyone in the room gets to hear much the same.

Having vertically mounted speaker drivers (like a standard 2x12 on its side) will hugely increase the horizontal sound spread (left to right) compared to horizontally mounted ones. This is because of the way which fairly closely mounted loudspeakers interact with each other. I have a vertical 2x12 bass cab and the sound spread across an audience is great.

In the real world this is much better than having a large vertical (floor to ceiling) sound spread but only beaming your sound to the people nearly directly in front of your cab. So yes stick your cab on its side. You might lose a little bass but more people out there will hear you a lot better. Good horizontal sound dispersion is much better than good vertical sound spread. Your audience will hear you better and you'll get less floor / ceiling reflections muddying up your sound.

If you have a 4x12 (4x10, whatever) you are stuffed. These are always much more directional!

See, even the exact same drivers can work against each other!

Lot of nonsense talked about sticking to valves for bass BTW, but it's your money. (How much you thinking of laying down, ballpark?)


Andy.