Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

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hitgar
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Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by hitgar » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:55 pm

(Sorry for the long post)
Setting
A friend of mine is looking for a new amp. He gets a list of features and tones that he wants but hates talking to sales people because they always talk him into buying something he doesn't want. I.e he goes in for a les paul walks out with a 7 string schecter. I agree to call some places and help him get some ideas so he can go into a store and try a few to make his decision.

Some features and tones.
He likes darker sounding amps.
He doesn't need high gain but does want it to be available for a possible side project he's working on.
He likes amps that give enough control that you can dial in some extra bass and low mids and cut the highs.
If it is a higher wattage amp then he wants the room to put in a Divo in the future

The conversation
I called a very well known place which I will not mention because I think they are great and I'm hoping it was just this guy. The guy obviously loves Mesa. He pushes this from the beginning. When I tell him that its hard to tell because everyone always scoops the crap out of it he assures me that your supposed to. When I say that I don't like to scoop my amps he again assures me that if I get that amp then I should. When I even mention another amp he stops me in my tracks and swears that this is the amp I want. When I tell him that I don't like V30's in a cab he argues that I would with this amp. When I ask him if there is enough room to insert the Divo he says no but then explains to me that I would never want to change the type of tubes in the amp because Mesa makes sure that everything is there for a reason and if I change anything it would just make it worse. He never listened to what I want or why I want it and instead tried to recruit me into the Cult of Mesa.

Now I know that most musicians are opinionated, myself included as I tried to showcase various Orange amps, but sales people should be helpful and listen. I know that its hard to remove your own personal feelings, and in many cases you don't need to because it shows passion about what your doing and often ends in a sale, but sometimes you should. I don't usually talk to sales people in shops unless I'm trying to talk down a price. I know what I want because I've researched the crap out of it and just go buy it (or order it). Maybe they just need to up their Mesa sales so the line doesn't get pulled from the store or something.

Does anyone else experience this when they talk to these people or was this just a poor exchange?

Les Paul Lover
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by Les Paul Lover » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:55 pm

Neither helpful nor opinionated, just a pussycat really.

Instead of pussycat, do read tw@t. That will make more sense....!!!!! :lol:
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

Jondog
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by Jondog » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:06 pm

Personally, I'd just walk away from the guy. If you don't like what you're hearing, find a different opinion. But, maybe a Rockerverb 100 with Divo installed is the answer you're looking for. But have you looked at Mesa? They make sure everything is right so you won't have to change anything. Except the fact you might not like them.
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a.hun
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by a.hun » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:30 pm

Probably either simply evangelical about Mesas, or yeah they are pushing Mesa right now for some sales target or other. There will be no getting through to this guy.
Waste of space...! :twisted:

Why not take your pal along to an Orange dealer and see if he likes their flavour of dark? Failing that, what about Laney. Or maybe a lower wattage bass amp. (Last really isn't a joke BTW, some do work brilliantly for guitar.)


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

Sergeantsnowball
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by Sergeantsnowball » Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:51 pm

a.hun wrote: Or maybe a lower wattage bass amp. (really isn't a joke BTW, some do work brilliantly for guitar.)
The Fender bassman is one of the most commended GUITAR amps in history for a reason.....
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OR73
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by OR73 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:55 pm

Man , the sales guy should be working to make you happy, not the other way around. You walk in and have him show you the amps YOU want to see. Not the one's HE wants to sell you. If he doesn't like it. Walk out the door or ask for another sales guy. There are plenty of stores out there, no need to get high pressured into making an expensive purchase that you don't want. It IS YOUR MONEY! :D
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

Janglin_Jack
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by Janglin_Jack » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:27 pm

Hard to tell if he is way too enthusiastic about the Mesa or if he paycheck is tied to selling them vs something else. Go elsewhere to try amps first. Get feedback from other shops/salesmen but in the end figure out what you, (your friend) wants by trying first. Nothing like getting talked into something you didn't intend to buy.

There are worse choices than a Mesa, but make it the right choice, not just relenting to sales pressure.

Mike
"...weak with evil and broken by the world."

Mystic38
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by Mystic38 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:35 pm

That's just a lousy salesman...

In a subjective business like tone, any half way decent salesman will listen to what you are looking for and make suggestions based around that.. If it was me this is what I would have done..then if I truly thought that (say) a mesa was a good idea for you personally I would have waited until you were done, said "humour me and give this a shot" and plugged you into a mesa.

Then at least I would have thought I was adding value... your guy?.. not much..lol
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

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myboss57
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by myboss57 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:10 pm

Yeah, sounds way too pushy and not interested in actually listening to your actual needs. I would've started to tune him out and just looked at amps that interested me in that scenario!
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Gibson SG Standard
http://www.nightmovesmd.bandcamp.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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hitgar
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by hitgar » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:22 pm

Thanks all. Like I said I don't talk to them much so I wasn't sure if this was a common occurrence or if I just hit a winner. Anyway, I will let him know that this is not the norm. He is just so timid that he doesn't even discuss anything with anyone who disagrees with him. I'm trying to break that. He should at least stick up for himself.

A funny quick story about his usual attitude toward life. I was at his house when his girlfriend got home (years ago). He said something that pissed her off and she starts screaming at him about 6 inches from his face. He never changed his expression as he gets up and slowly walks into the kitchen. She maintains her 6 inch distance the whole time. He goes into the cupboard and pulls out a bowl and a can of soup. Places it in the microwave and waits for it to cook. She is still screaming mind you. He then sits down at the table and starts eating his soup. She finally has a lucid moment and realizes what is happening and screams, "what are you doing?". He then replies, "having some soup, do you want some?". She tears off again screaming that he has no emotions etc. Mean while I am hysterically laughing on the floor in the next room peaking just enough through the doorway that I see the whole thing.

He has a unique ability to completely detach from the situation once a confrontation occurs. I think that's why he is so non-resistive in a sales pitch and just ends up walking out with whatever the salesman pushes on him. Come to think of it he has hated his car from the time he bought it and now I think its paid off. Funny guy.

Thanks again all. I'll be sure to mention the suggestions given here.

OU818
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by OU818 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:57 pm

a.hun wrote:Probably either simply evangelical about Mesas, or yeah they are pushing Mesa right now for some sales target or other. There will be no getting through to this guy.
Waste of space...! :twisted:

Why not take your pal along to an Orange dealer and see if he likes their flavour of dark? Failing that, what about Laney. Or maybe a lower wattage bass amp. (Last really isn't a joke BTW, some do work brilliantly for guitar.)


Andy.
I actually get scarily good guitar tones out of my $50 Ampeg BA108. Nearly tempted to buy the slightly bigger one for a rehearsal room amp.
Orange Gear:
AD200B MkIII
Terror Bass MkII
OBC810

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a.hun
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by a.hun » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:00 am

Yeah, I believe that if you can get great basic clean sounds from an amp then you can (with the right pedals etc) get all sorts of great distorted guitar sounds too.

I can get some great clean guitar sounds with my Ampeg B-100R and two Markbass MicroMark combos. Not to mention the other amps, valve or otherwise, I use for bass. Plenty of guitarists go that sort of route quite happily. Nothing really new there. Won't appeal to people who insist that all their distortion has to come from the amp of course, but not everyone believes that. Frankly as long as the sounds are effective I don't really care how you get them. There are plenty of different solutions out there for guitarists. :wink:

Wonder how these little beauties would work for guitar for example...
http://ashdownmusic.com/products/1/Bass ... -Bastard-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ashdownmusic.com/products/1/Bass ... /13/CTM15/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Only real disadvantage I can see is that like most bass amps they are only designed for 4 or 8 ohm speaker loads. Bet they'd both sound pretty damn fat and funky (in a good way) for guitar though.


Andy.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

Mystic38
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by Mystic38 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:57 pm

too funny, my friend has her BA108 in my living room, plugged the strat in and was like "oh".....lol
OU818 wrote: I actually get scarily good guitar tones out of my $50 Ampeg BA108. Nearly tempted to buy the slightly bigger one for a rehearsal room amp.
-Ian-

Orange Rocker 30c, PPC212 & PPC112, Fender DRRI, Marshall 2266
2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

alexauxier
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by alexauxier » Thu May 01, 2014 2:35 pm

Hey would you do me a favor and let me know which store this is, the employee's name, the store's open hours, the color of this guy's hair, and describe in less than 50 words his scent?

I want to go up there and beat the sh ---....um, "train" him on how to better serve the needs of his customers.
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Alex Auxier
Orange Amps
Artist Relations Manager

Jondog
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Re: Helpful salesman or opinionated musician?

Post by Jondog » Thu May 01, 2014 2:58 pm

alexauxier wrote:Hey would you do me a favor and let me know which store this is, the employee's name, the store's open hours, the color of this guy's hair, and describe in less than 50 words his scent?

I want to go up there and beat the sh ---....um, "train" him on how to better serve the needs of his customers.
Now thats Orange customer service!
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