Who likes

[Randy Bass]

I like Nirvana. And Oasis. Kurt's guitar tones and playing are usually pretty harsh and occasionally terrible to my ears though. Noel's no Jimmy Page, but he always had great tone and didn't sh*t all over the songs with off-key wanking. Probably just a lack of drugs...er...creativity. There's no point in pretending that Nirvana's Flannel Pop is somehow more legitimate or authentic than Oasis' brand of Brit Pop just because the delivery and image were rougher. It's all just music. I'm not going to worship any of them whether they're dead or not. I just like to throw my bombz on the interwebz.

[bclaire]

I'm not blaming Nirvana. I would have taken the money too. My beef is with all the masses and media that act lik they sprang out of the abyss with this 'new sound" that "changed the world" when they didn't. In fact, I think Kurt felt really guilty about it because he knew that they didn't really deserve the accolades they received.

I just think of them as a band who got famous and , as I said not their fault, helped bring about the ruination of independent music as a "thing".

Just saw Supersuckers last Wednesday. They were the best I've ever seen them...

I sort of feel like Nirvana did to alternative what Journey did to rock in general.

[Jondog]

They never called themselves alternative, or grunge. Grunge was a term created by marketers to sell. Nirvana was more about punk rock and were still playing small dives in a shitty van when Nevermind was released. Everything happened almost overnight as the album took over the charts. If you want an example about how Nirvana felt about being mainstream and selling out, look at the un-plugged album. How many of their own songs did they play? MTV was not happy about that.

[thinspirits77]

If you want an example about how Nirvana felt about being mainstream and selling out, look at the un-plugged album. How many of their own songs did they play? MTV was not happy about that.

Not only that, but the Nirvana songs they did play were "non-hits." If I'm not mistaken All Apologies hadn't been released as a single yet, so really Come As You Are was the only hit they played.

[hitgar]

They never called themselves alternative, or grunge. Grunge was a term created by marketers to sell. Nirvana was more about punk rock and were still playing small dives in a shitty van when Nevermind was released. Everything happened almost overnight as the album took over the charts. If you want an example about how Nirvana felt about being mainstream and selling out, look at the un-plugged album. How many of their own songs did they play? MTV was not happy about that.

Agreed. They didn't really set out to do what they did and always seemed to drop names of other bands that they appreciated when being interviewed. I even think there were 3 or 4 "A side" songs on Incesticide that were covers. I think people either like them or can't stand them. There is very little middle ground there. And if anyone killed the 80's scene it was all the people who supported Nirvana, not the band themselves. They were just making music. People get to vote everyday with their money. The industry just reacts and pushes the bands that people are willing to spend more money on. That's all there is to it. Hey I went out and bought a dod grunge pedal, which is the worst sounding pedal that I have ever heard. The first guitar I had was an acoustic and the first song I learned how to play all the way through was Polly. Sorry 80's, it was my fault. On the plus side, if you find a metal band that still sounds old school and they are making it, then it means they are damn good. Kinda weeds out the crap and reversed the roles.

[Spaceboy1]

Oasis is pure pop garbage and not even in the same league as Nirvana.

[OR73]

I'm not blaming Nirvana. I would have taken the money too. My beef is with all the masses and media that act lik they sprang out of the abyss with this 'new sound" that "changed the world" when they didn't. In fact, I think Kurt felt really guilty about it because he knew that they didn't really deserve the accolades they received.

I just think of them as a band who got famous and , as I said not their fault, helped bring about the ruination of independent music as a "thing".

Nirvana is actually an interesting case. When Sub Pop signed them, the band and especially Kurt felt obligated and restricted to write dark sludgy stuff to appease the grunge scene on Bleach. Kurt's said in numerous interviews that the Nevermind/In Utero pop sound was much more natural and truthful for him to write than the demo days stuff.

As much as I enjoy shellac, the melvins, screaming trees and all their peers with "thatasound," those warbly chorused verses and loud-ass distorted choruses were a relatively fresh take on the rock scene that heavily influenced the big nineties alternative bands like radiohead, sleater-kinney, pavement, superchunk, incubus, queens of the stone age etc... Pearl Jam's Ten was released before Nevermind, but that album only picked up sales on the coattails of Nirvana's popularity. In fact many, if not all, of the bands you've listed benefited HEAVILY off Nirvana putting alt rock in the spotlight. I really dislike the diction of "ruining independent music as a thing." By "ruining it", do you mean bringing it to the attention of people who listen to non-college radio stations or live across the country and would otherwise have never heard of them because they couldn't tour outside of their region? It sounds like it's "ruined" only for the select few who were able do see the dirt-cheap garage shows and underground music scene before the bands were able to become household names and earn a decent wage for their work. Nirvana's popularity provided an entire genre of music massive touring opportunities, record sales, and uninhibited influence on a generation of songwriters that might have otherwise gone unfulfilled.

Makes me wonder if you'd say the vice versa if Goat had put alt music on the billboards and Nirvana had lived in The Jesus Lizard shadow.

I just think it's odd to knock the success of a band when it put many other culturally less prominent bands on the map. Nirvana did change the music landscape. For the people who weren't in touch with the MTV alt scene, it is likely Nirvana was the first band of that style they heard. I can't think of a better envoy of the genre to modern enthusiasts. Pixies, New Order, Velvet Underground, Fugazi, Meat Puppets? Hell no. I'm glad Nirvana made it and I'm glad they receive recognition for bringing alt rock to the mainstream.

It didn't put them on the map. it made a bunch of d-bags think they were cool all of a sudden. Like I said in my first post. You find this really great cafe, you tell your friends about it. It's "your place" then out of the blue it gets a big write up in the paper, dubles in size and business and eventually get's bought out and turned into a chain. yeah it made the owners a lot of money, but the life and essence of what made it great got sucked right out of it.

oh and it never would have happened like that for the Jesus Lizard, they just weren't that sort of band. and you "MTV music alt scene" comment is a low blow!!! Nine of that stuff was on MTV, not until Nirvana anyway

[OR73]

I'm not blaming Nirvana. I would have taken the money too. My beef is with all the masses and media that act lik they sprang out of the abyss with this 'new sound" that "changed the world" when they didn't. In fact, I think Kurt felt really guilty about it because he knew that they didn't really deserve the accolades they received.

I just think of them as a band who got famous and , as I said not their fault, helped bring about the ruination of independent music as a "thing".

Just saw Supersuckers last Wednesday. They were the best I've ever seen them...

I sort of feel like Nirvana did to alternative what Journey did to rock in general.

a fine observation! That's exactly what I mean.

[thinspirits77]

It didn't put them on the map. it made a bunch of d-bags think they were cool all of a sudden. Like I said in my first post. You find this really great cafe, you tell your friends about it. It's "your place" then out of the blue it gets a big write up in the paper, dubles in size and business and eventually get's bought out and turned into a chain. yeah it made the owners a lot of money, but the life and essence of what made it great got sucked right out of it.

The problem here is the d-bags though, not the band (or the cafe owners in the second example). The problem you are pointing out, which I don't like either but can't do anything about -- is that the majority of people don't take the music they listen to nearly as seriously as they should. While most if not all of us totally dive in head first to the music we love, the majority of "casual" music fans just look for a hook or, even worse, just dig whatever the person standing next to them digs. It's a shame but it's not the fault of the band that a bunch of d-bags started listening to them. I bet it drove them nuts.

I don't think success sucked the life and essence out of Nirvana. Personally I think In Utero was their best album, and I'd say it's not even close.

[snickerpuss]

I don't think success sucked the life and essence out of Nirvana. Personally I think In Utero was their best album, and I'd say it's not even close.

I agree. A lot of their interviews state they became more creative and versatile after they achieved fame because they weren't trying to produce something to make them famous, just being themselves. It would have been pretty amazing to hear the album that "You know you're right" was going to be on.

[OR73]

It didn't put them on the map. it made a bunch of d-bags think they were cool all of a sudden. Like I said in my first post. You find this really great cafe, you tell your friends about it. It's "your place" then out of the blue it gets a big write up in the paper, dubles in size and business and eventually get's bought out and turned into a chain. yeah it made the owners a lot of money, but the life and essence of what made it great got sucked right out of it.

The problem here is the d-bags though, not the band (or the cafe owners in the second example). The problem you are pointing out, which I don't like either but can't do anything about -- is that the majority of people don't take the music they listen to nearly as seriously as they should. While most if not all of us totally dive in head first to the music we love, the majority of "casual" music fans just look for a hook or, even worse, just dig whatever the person standing next to them digs. It's a shame but it's not the fault of the band that a bunch of d-bags started listening to them. I bet it drove them nuts.

I don't think success sucked the life and essence out of Nirvana. Personally I think In Utero was their best album, and I'd say it's not even close.

Oh I agree, it's not the band's fault per se. BUT, the fact remains that they were the band that lead to all of the "soul sucking" from the indie music scene. I blame the industry and lame-o casual music fans. But mostly the industry. They don't care about music, or scenes or anything, (and certainly not bands) they only want to sell as many widgets as they can. which is fine. That's bidness. Doesn't mean they get to re-write music history nor does it mean I have some obligation to hold Nirvana in any sort of reverence.

I've always thought that Nirvana was music for people who were too big of weenies/too lazy to make the effort to have music be a lifestyle choice. It was kinda like getting a tattoo on your ass in the mid 80's. You felt like a rebel, but you didn't have to pay any consequences for it.

Just to elaborate; my feelings toward Nirvana isn't that they are 'sell outs" or any sort of naive, juvenile nonsense. I just don't think they were a very important band. Nor do i think record sales are a determination of quality. I think they were important for people who didn't know any better. Which is kinda like being the guy who has the most teeth in West Virginia!!! if they had never been a major label band, I don't think they would have had any "legendary" status amongst the underground scene, not like some of the bands I mentioned..... YMMV

[OU818]

I listen to lots of different music and hold no restrictions on what I enjoy.

You guys should try it.

[Les Paul Lover]

I like Nirvana. And Oasis. Kurt's guitar tones and playing are usually pretty harsh and occasionally terrible to my ears though. Noel's no Jimmy Page, but he always had great tone and didn't sh*t all over the songs with off-key wanking. Probably just a lack of drugs...er...creativity. There's no point in pretending that Nirvana's Flannel Pop is somehow more legitimate or authentic than Oasis' brand of Brit Pop just because the delivery and image were rougher. It's all just music. I'm not going to worship any of them whether they're dead or not. I just like to throw my bombz on the interwebz.

That was a bit daring that.

I listen to lots of different music and hold no restrictions on what I enjoy.

You guys should try it.

Interesting concept.

Oasis is pure pop garbage and not even in the same league as Nirvana.

tut tut tut...... And what of the people who enjoy Oasis? They may be deeply hurt to hear them called garbage.





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Thanks guys, this thread has kept me etertained this weekend.

I recently listened smells like teen spirit again Use to listen to it all the time when I was 15yo.

I was surprised at just how much ANGER there's in that record. It's pretty crazy and so raw. I think that's part of their success at the time, they weren't a polished musical production, but raw emotions and rage that spoke to (some) people. Perhaps more, perhaps less than Oasis.

[dylan]

Nirvana where the reason I picked up a guitar in the first place! Love their music especially the lesser known stuff! I have to say though that I never really think about a particular tone when I think of Kurt cobains playing. I'm sure he would have enjoyed Orange though, just this afternoon I was playing some Nirvana tunes on a strat through a big muff into a handwired Marshall 18watt 1x12 combo!

[joeminer]

I like Nirvana. I never would have heard them if they stuck to their unknown scene (given the part of the country I grew up in). So I don't mind that they got big.

I don't know about Cobain playing Orange - regardless of tone. He seemed to relish in the cheapness of his guitars and he was pretty hard on gear. It would have been interesting to have a Kurt vs. Joplin tornado comparison on the durability of Orange though.