HNGD and question about pickups

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Mrjones2004x
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HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Mrjones2004x » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:14 pm

Hi guys, long time no posting but thought I'd share and ask a simple question.

So I got myself 2 guitars recently. A Gibson SG special from the year 2000 and couple of years old epiphone es333 tom delonge.

Both play amazing and the epi sounds like I always wanted. Really dirty, nasty and thick.
Now the sg neck tones are lush nut the bridge is pretty lame. Very nasally with way to much going on in the mid range.

If I swap out the bridge pickup for dirty fingers the same as the epi you think I will end up with the same sound?

Both guitars are built completely different and from different woods so I wondered if the pickup swap will really do that much.

Opinions?

Here's the pics

Image

Image
Tone is everything

Mystic38
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Mystic38 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:22 pm

Well, in the general sense there is nothing you can do to an SG to make it sound like an ES.

Assuming new strings, first I would make sure that the bridge pup is setup correctly on the SG.. if, when you switch from rhythm to treble you get a reduction in volume then you need to raise the pup for more output.
Secondly, figure out if you have the stock pups, or what pups are actually in the SG then look for alternatives if you wish to.. SD JB/Jazz is a good pair and there are plenty of others..just don't expect it ever to sound like the ES.

and congrats on the new geeturs!
-Ian-

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2012 Gibson LP Standard, 2001 Gibson LP DC Standard
2009 Fender Am. Standard Strat, 1999 Fender Am. Hardtail Strat
2014 G&L Fallout

***insert great photos of gear here***

Mrjones2004x
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Mrjones2004x » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:32 pm

Thanks,
Yeah not sure what pickups are in there, new strings today and pickup heights are good. Feels strange that a an epi es can gibe out so much thickness and dirtyness and the SG just seems weaker in comparison. I got the epi as I fancied something different and love the punk kinda sound and its spot on. Never heard of tom delonge until I got the guitar. Blink 182 who lol :lol:
Tone is everything

Gtr_Pkr
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Gtr_Pkr » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:07 pm

I'm thinking if you put some new pups in the SG, it will sound better. It sounds like the SG might need a pup with more output to get close to the Dirty Fingers. Maybe get after them with your multimeter and see what the outputs are of each pup. The difference might be one is a 10k ohm output (Dirty Finger) and the other is around a 7k ohm.
Lost in the spacey reverb of the Rockerverb.......SOMEBODY GET ME OUTTA HERE!!

Mrjones2004x
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Mrjones2004x » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:45 pm

Yeah I like high output. That's prob all it is.
I might check them later if I get time. Didn't really think about doing that.
Tone is everything

Dunky
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Dunky » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:46 pm

Basically I don't know but wanted to say nice guitars and nice stack!
Image

Puckhog
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Puckhog » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:06 pm

This is a tuff one, because descriptors like "nasally" and 'mid-heavy' can mean different things to different people, and because there are so many different factors that come into play besides the pickups themselves.

Over this past year or two, I've spent a fair bit of time evaluating and upgrading the electronics on a number of guitars including three Epi's (e.g., Blackback LP, Sheraton-II, Wildkat), and if I've learned anything in the process, its that pickups aren't the whole story. In fact, in my experience, just about any pickup, even total junk in many cases, can be vastly improved with upgraded components, and given the relatively low cost of new pots, caps and/or wire, it just seems like a logical first step before spending a hundred or more on a replacement pickup. I have no direct experience with SG's specifically, but if the pickups are factory originals, then I highly doubt that they're "junk" or low-grade offerings like some of the Epiphone's, and to me, this is even more reason to focus on the other electronics. From looking at the standard SG schematic, it looks like each pup employs an 0.022uF tone cap with 500k audio taper tone and volume pots, which shouldn't produce an overly dark or mid-rangey tone. But who's to say that those pots and caps are all healthy? Or that the solder points are all solid? It can become a real crapshoot at-times.

If you own one, I think I'd start (as others have suggested) by throwing a multimeter to the amp-end of your instrument cable (when connected to the SG with volume pot dimed) to determine the present output of your existing bridge HB. Its a very small piece of the puzzle and not an accurate indicator of true output, but it'll give you some idea of where you're at with that particular pup. In my experience, some of the crispness and top-end sparkle is lost as the output increases, so if the output of your bridge pup is unexpectedly high for some odd reason, this could be part of the problem. If that's the case, a simple swap of tone cap (e.g., 0.022uF to 0.010uF) might do wonders. How dramatic is the sweep of brightness on the current (bridge) tone pot? Does it seem largely ineffective or strange in any way? Also, if its super "nasally" (as you seem to be describing it), then you may have a phase issue somewhere, in which case, the three-way would be my first stop.

Mrjones2004x
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Mrjones2004x » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:37 am

Thanks for the reply. When I say nasally I mean very mid rich, it has good low end and tones of highs to but I feel like the mid is to strong.
I have no mid control on my jmp1 amp and its a very mid heavy amp. maybe nasally was the wrong word.
Actually nasally hgets used with association of wah pedals so its not nasally just very mid heavy.
I will check the output when I get home, just off to finish my tattoo sleeve!
Tone is everything

Mrjones2004x
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Mrjones2004x » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:18 pm

OK so here's my meter readings

Epiphone (dirty fingers) 15.18k ohms

Gibson SG, bridge 7.94k ohms
Neck 7.47 k ohms

Big difference
Tone is everything

Puckhog
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by Puckhog » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:16 pm

Mrjones2004x wrote:OK so here's my meter readings

Epiphone (dirty fingers) 15.18k ohms

Gibson SG, bridge 7.94k ohms
Neck 7.47 k ohms

Big difference
Typical humbucker specs, and when coupled with your clarification regarding "nasal" = mid-rangey, plus your observations about the amp (jmp1), I'd say your SG (or its pickups) aren't the issue.

snickerpuss
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Re: HNGD and question about pickups

Post by snickerpuss » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:07 am

That "nasally" tone is what I think is the SG flavor. That extra upper middy honk is a love or hate tone and it's unique in that particular Gibson line. This is because the guitar is really woody sounding due to the thinness of the body and less density from the unbound body. Personally, I don't think there's any greater sound for rock than an SG with p90s and a wraparound bridge. I'm sure you could tinker with the pups all day and find something to suit you (active pickups probably?), but in the meantime, embrace that honk and windmill some open A chords, says I.
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