Can you double track guitars when recording live?

DiabloS · Post by **DiabloS** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:46 am

I'm just thinking ahead to when our band will record next. So far I don't think we've been able to capture the live chemistry/energy we have while playing together on recording. So we're thinking about tracking live with no click track for the next EP or album, but that has me wondering... how hard would it be to double track guitars after you've played it live while singing compared to playing each instrument in isolation? When most rock bands record live, do they go in and double track the guitar parts so you can pan them left and right as in most other professional recordings? I'd like to have the energy of a live performance with the thickness of layered guitar parts, is this easily do-able or out of the norm?

jax510 · Post by **jax510** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:01 am

If I understand correctly, I don't see why that would be difficult. I don't know that much about recording but when my band recorded I played with the drummer and we had a bunch of microphones set up so it was live but the tracks were all still seperate. I would imagine you could then record another guitar no problem

OrangePaul · Post by **OrangePaul** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:17 am

If there were no obvious cues to bring you in for the overdubs you could always use an intro click or something.

I think it's a great idea personally if you are wanting to get that bonded feel of how musicians used to play back in the day. Listening to one another while you play rather than a click has got to be better and playing off one another etc

Les Paul Lover · Post by **Les Paul Lover** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:20 am

Using 2 separate microphones on 2 different tracks?

it does mean you'd need to own or borrow a 2nd Mic.

OrangePaul · Post by **OrangePaul** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:13 pm

I think the essence of getting a good feel is to get the drums and bass tracked live with a guide vocal maybe. I'd take each track as it comes tho. Don't limit yourself to only one way of working would be my advice.

The only other real alternative I can see is cloning

DiabloS · Post by **DiabloS** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:51 pm

OrangePaul wrote:I think the essence of getting a good feel is to get the drums and bass tracked live with a guide vocal maybe. I'd take each track as it comes tho. Don't limit yourself to only one way of working would be my advice.

The only other real alternative I can see is cloning

Yeah, maybe that's what we'll do....just drums and bass live and add in guitars afterwards. I don't want to just use two mics or clone because the beauty of double tracking guitars is when you have 2 separate takes, the milliseconds that you're off from the other track naturally are what add depth to the sound.

OrangePaul · Post by **OrangePaul** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:36 pm

Ha ha I meant for you to clone yourself

ofcmaifa · Post by **ofcmaifa** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:03 pm

My band just did our ep yesterday. We recorded drums, bass, and 2 guitars all live. And the vocals after. That's how we get a live sound. We were going to double up on the tracks, but after doing one track like that we couldn't really hear enough difference to go through all that work. So we didn't. 6 songs and mixed in 8 hours and all guitars recorded with Orange amps (TH100 & Dark Terror).

DiabloS · Post by **DiabloS** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:14 pm

OrangePaul wrote:Ha ha I meant for you to clone yourself

My bad I thought you meant the tracks

The disadvantages of having 2 of me in this world far outweigh the benefits of double tracking guitars, but thanks! haha

ofcmaifa wrote:My band just did our ep yesterday. We recorded drums, bass, and 2 guitars all live. And the vocals after. That's how we get a live sound. We were going to double up on the tracks, but after doing one track like that we couldn't really hear enough difference to go through all that work. So we didn't. 6 songs and mixed in 8 hours and all guitars recorded with Orange amps (TH100 & Dark Terror).

Interesting, but you have 2 guitar players as well where we only have one. I'd still be really interested in hearing the results though once you have something you can share with us!

tarfungo · Post by **tarfungo** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:38 pm

Maybe I'm missing something about this thread, but double tracking guitars (any instrument for that matter, including vocals) is a basic recording technique that has been used in modern recording for many decades - way before any of the digital tools we all know about these days.

It's well documented that The Beatles recorded Sgt Pepper on multiple 4 track machines. The basic rhythm tracks were recorded on the first deck (drums, guitars, pianos, keys, vocals), then those were bounced to one (possibly two) tracks of a second 4 track machine, then overdubs were tracked over these bounced tracks. All of these tracks were recorded 'live'. In fact, Paul recorded most of the bass tracks on Sgt Pepper's as the LAST instrument without any of the other Beatles being present. In other words, all of the tracks were tracked without a bass guitar and the bass was added after all the other musical elements were completed.

Using a click track doesn't change any of this either. There are no rules when recording other than recording the best performance you and your band can. After that, as long as you have money and time, the sky is your limit.

So, the answer to your question is; yes - of course you can double track (overdub) instruments on any 'live' recording. This done regularly both with 'live' tracks that were recorded in front of an audience as well as live recoding of a band in a studio.

ofcmaifa · Post by **ofcmaifa** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:12 am

ofcmaifa wrote:My band just did our ep yesterday. We recorded drums, bass, and 2 guitars all live. And the vocals after. That's how we get a live sound. We were going to double up on the tracks, but after doing one track like that we couldn't really hear enough difference to go through all that work. So we didn't. 6 songs and mixed in 8 hours and all guitars recorded with Orange amps (TH100 & Dark Terror).

DiabloS wrote:Interesting, but you have 2 guitar players as well where we only have one. I'd still be really interested in hearing the results though once you have something you can share with us!

Yes we do have 2 guitar players, but the other guy is always playing something else (lead guitar stuff, lol).
Here's a link to a teaser track. We are still waiting for the rest of the tracks to get back from being mastered. Let me know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r54S_G1_1PI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ScottyDanger · Post by **ScottyDanger** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:15 am

If it's the live sound you want, then why add anything later?

If you do want to, then I think using a second mic is your best bet. Try to get a different 'flavor' altogether, like a condenser mic!

Wendigo · Post by **Wendigo** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:01 am

I don't see how the live vibe would be changed negatively if you just recorded a doubled guitar part later in studio. Otherwise what you'Re asking is not possible.
Personally, if I insisted on having only live tracks with no studio doubling, I would mic the instruments separately live, and use two condenser mics in an X/Y config in front of the stage. I would then mix those two mics hard left and hard right (making sure that the mic that recorded stage-left actually was on the left etc) and bring threm into the mix until I felt it had enough width to give more of a stereo effect. Keep in mind you're gonna need to use the separate mics for each instrument in a way that compliments the hard left/right panning ie. send the direct guitar to the left and the guitar from the X/Y config right for a doubling effect. Bass and drums right in the middle (or span the drums out stereo depending on the number of mics used).
In other words, let's say in the real life situation, the guitar is on the right. The mic right in front of the amp is kind of "free" because it's not recording any positional information. Therefore you can place it wherever you want in the mix. The XY mics on the other hand are recording relative positional information of the whole band on stage. Send the mic that has picked up the right part of the stage (ie guitar) to the right and the other XY mic to the left. Then you could place the "free" guitar mic on the other side to give the doubling effect. You have the spacious guitar effect, the stereo band mix and of course it's all live vibe. You'll have to watch about phasing problems caused by the XY mics being a bit farther away than the direct mics, and also because they may somehow cancel each other, but I don't think it should be a major issue. You could also try "all right mics to the right, all left mics to the left" but you will probably get some kind of chorusing effect due to the time delay between mics on any given instrument. Hope this helps.

Jim

DiabloS · Post by **DiabloS** » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:44 am

ofcmaifa wrote:Yes we do have 2 guitar players, but the other guy is always playing something else (lead guitar stuff, lol).
Here's a link to a teaser track. We are still waiting for the rest of the tracks to get back from being mastered. Let me know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r54S_G1_1PI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That sounds pretty good!

Anyways, thanks for the ideas guys. I think we might just try recording a single as a test run and see where that takes us.

baytamusic · Post by **baytamusic** » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:27 pm

It'll work fine and it's very common. You'll probably want to do vocals after the fact too. If you have good isolation you can even re-record instruments if say the drummer nails the take and someone else screws up.