I think I need a buffer

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Woodsie
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I think I need a buffer

Post by Woodsie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:13 pm

Before I knew all about signal degradation in regards to cable length, I spent a decent amount of money on 30ft Monster Cables for my pedal board. I don't use a ridiculous amount of pedals but I think the length of my cables might be an issue. I run a 10 ft Monster into the board, Tuner/ Cantrell Wah/EP Boost/TS808HW/30 ft Monster to front of amp. Loop is a 30ft Monster/MXR 10 band eq/MXR Carbon Copy/MXR Smart Gate/30 ft MOnster to fx return. I sometimes run a wireless up front. I was running an A/B comparison this morning between straight in with a 10 ft cable and through my regular rig. I seem to be losing some high end sparkle and clarity as compared to straight in. I don't want to run shorter cables because we sometimes have the opportunity to play on a big stage and I like to be as far away from my amp as possible in these cases. I've been looking at stand alone buffers and I think I like the Cmatmods Buffer. Short money, small and seems really good. The other thing is placement. I was thinking at the very beginning, very end or maybe both. What do you think?
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Thinline_slim
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Thinline_slim » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:22 pm

Before going to a buffer have you tried running a couple of 10' cables for your loop? I don't have a lot of experience with loops but having 60+ feet of cables in the loop could be causing the majority of your high end loss. If you can narrow it down to it being the guitar signal chain or loop chain you'll have an easier time determining a plan of attack. I have no idea if there are buffers out there for an effects loop.
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Woodsie
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Woodsie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:40 pm

The problem is, I don't always want to have to be 6 or 7 feet from my amp all the time. I usually am but I like to spread out a little when I can. Also, for reference purposes, my amp is a RV50 MKII with the improved loop. Honestly though, for the amount of time I actually use any of the effects in the loop, I could probably get away without it at all.
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Woodsie
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Woodsie » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:24 pm

So, after posting this, I started thinking. what I said in my prior post, in regards to the pedals in my loop, I hardly use them. I almost never turn the eq on and I use the delay for one song. So, I removed these, and the two 30ft cables to and from.
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Now, I have only this, all pedals that I actually use and no loop.

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We'll see how it goes.
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Jondog
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Jondog » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:52 pm

A buffer is a good thing to have regardless. If you plug your boss pedal in the line you'll have a buffer in line.
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Thinline_slim
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Thinline_slim » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:04 am

Sorry man, I don't think I was very clear on my end. I was suggesting trying to isolate whether the loop or gtr signal chain was causing the loss in high end. If its your guitar signal then you don't need to change anything on the loop and vice versa. Once you know where the issue is you can work on a solution. There very well could be a loop buffer out there that would let you keep your 60+ feet of loop cable.

And to mimic Jondogs recommendation, I think most if not all Boss pedals are buffered. I've considered getting a TU-3 just to have a buffer at the beginning of my chain. But then I remember I play a Tele so losing a little top end is ok. :wink:
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Woodsie
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Woodsie » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:17 am

Thinline_slim wrote:Sorry man, I don't think I was very clear on my end. I was suggesting trying to isolate whether the loop or gtr signal chain was causing the loss in high end. If its your guitar signal then you don't need to change anything on the loop and vice versa. Once you know where the issue is you can work on a solution. There very well could be a loop buffer out there that would let you keep your 60+ feet of loop cable.

And to mimic Jondogs recommendation, I think most if not all Boss pedals are buffered. I've considered getting a TU-3 just to have a buffer at the beginning of my chain. But then I remember I play a Tele so losing a little top end is ok. :wink:
Oh, I know. It just got me thinking and made me realize his redicous the whole setup was. I've really been trying to go minimalist on pedals anyway so that was kind of liberating. I think I'll try throwing g the Boss back in front of my chain (it was my clean boost in the loop). See how that works.
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irish_admiral
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by irish_admiral » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:15 am

If any of your pedals are not true bypass (like the old Boss ones), you can shove that at the front of your chain and it will work as a buffer.

The alternative is to simply adjust your amp to compensate. You're going to lose a little signal strength, and probably a shade of top end depending on what the cabling attenuates. Just put it back in at the amp with a touch more gain / MV and treble.

Fundamentally, the problem is caused by the length of unbalanced cabling you've got, as you know, so all of the above is just a band aid for that.

A more expensive solution is this...

http://www.radialeng.com/r2011/sgi.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Balances your signal so you can send it a lot further. Useful if you want to park your amp somewhere where it's miles away, or offstage.
Joe

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Woodsie
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Woodsie » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:55 am

I got an email back forum Cmatmods. I asked about their buffer and would he suggest one or two. He said o e at the end because "the wireless should take care of the front end" ????
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irish_admiral
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by irish_admiral » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:44 pm

Input impedance has a lot to do with it. If the wireless system has something which gets involved there, it might help.

Having said that, if you don't play wireless all the time, it's not going to help.
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Jondog
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Jondog » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:23 pm

Woodsie wrote:I got an email back forum Cmatmods. I asked about their buffer and would he suggest one or two. He said o e at the end because "the wireless should take care of the front end" ????
If you run a wireless straight into the amp, a buffer is not need because there is no cable creating capacitance on your signal.
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irish_admiral
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by irish_admiral » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:51 pm

... but presumably the wireless would go into the front of the pedalboard, which does have wires...
Joe

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Jondog
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Jondog » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:59 pm

irish_admiral wrote:... but presumably the wireless would go into the front of the pedalboard, which does have wires...
Yes, which is why they said to put the buffer after the pedalboard.
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irish_admiral
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by irish_admiral » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:01 pm

But still shouldn't make any difference if you were to have it at the front, especially for the occasions when wireless isn't in use...
Joe

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Woodsie
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Re: I think I need a buffer

Post by Woodsie » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:07 pm

All good points. I'm going to use a Boss pedal as a buffer and try it out in both positions. I was A/B ing my wireless with a 10 ft Monster cable today. it was much louder with the cable. I realized I had never adjusted the gain on the wireless receiver. I was giving up a lot. It was as if I always had my guitars volume rolled back.
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