Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania?

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frankajoerg
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Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania?

Post by frankajoerg » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:38 am

hi guys!

Im two days away from receiving my first ever Orange amp, a RV MKll 50 head and I was wondering if a noise gate pedal is a must for this amp when you use overdrive and fuzz pedals in your set up?

As this RV is a pretty high gain amp I would assume that feedback would become an issue when using pedals like a Klon Centaur, Rat/TS808 and a Frantone Peach Fuzz?

I dont have a noise gate pedal and hope to avoid getting one. anyone here who like to share your opinions?

More about my set up:
Marshall 1960AX cab
Gibson R7 les paul
Gibson R9 les paul
Fender Telecaster Special
Crybaby wah
Polytune tuner
Frantone Peach Fuzz
Klon Centaur
Custom made RAT/TS808 combo pedal
EH Micro Pog
EH Memory Man Deluxe
Strymon Timeline delay
Boss DM2 delay
MXR Phase 90

a.hun
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by a.hun » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:08 am

Sounds like you are imagining the worst. :wink:

Well a noise gate won't help against feedback. Just keep your gain / volume ratio low enough to avoid problems. If you go louder take the gain down some. You'll usually find that the very best rock sounds use less gain than you'd imagine anyway - beyond a cerain point extra gain just loses you all playing definition, even for more extreme heavy styles. If you want tight controlled sounds you are better keeping the amp master volume higher and preamp gain a bit lower.

Noise gate of course just cuts in at low signal levels to cut the signal (and excessive hiss). At higher signal levels (and against feedback) it'll have no effect at all. If the amp isn't particularly hissy you shouldn't need a noise gate at all. And if an RV.50 is particularly hissy than you would be better trying less noisy preamp valves first - these are well designed amps so shouldn't be bad on the hiss front. There will always be some hiss at higher gain levels of course, and how much your pedals add is down to the pedals...


ANdy.
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frankajoerg
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by frankajoerg » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:10 pm

thanks for your reply and sounds logic indeed!

Im hoping that Im gonna love the natural RV overdrive so much that I could sell most of these overdrive peals and maybe just have a booster to enhance the overdriven tones coming out of the RV.

I cant wait to unleash the monster on tuesday and test and tweak it:)

will try to keep the gain down, after all less is more:)

But how does it handle pedals? i read different reviews regarding this subject and most posts says that it doesnt handle pedals all that much!

Will put the delay pedals in the effect loop and the rest in front of the amp.

Thanks!

a.hun
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by a.hun » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:12 pm

frankajoerg wrote:thanks for your reply and sounds logic indeed!

Im hoping that Im gonna love the natural RV overdrive so much that I could sell most of these overdrive peals and maybe just have a booster to enhance the overdriven tones coming out of the RV.
Well, that happens a lot with Orange users! :D
But how does it handle pedals? i read different reviews regarding this subject and most posts says that it doesnt handle pedals all that much!

Will put the delay pedals in the effect loop and the rest in front of the amp.

Thanks!
Thing is that Oranges are pretty different tonally from most other amps out there. (In fact I'd say that nothing else sounds quite like an Orange, and I've played many many amps!) Basically there is lots of low mids girth to the Orange sound, much more than most amps. A modern Marshall has a really punchy cut through the mix upper mids sound for example and that is more typical of many other amps too.

So while Oranges including the RV. can work well with pedals you have to choose them carefully. You might well find the ones you are used to with other amps aren't the best for Oranges. Lots of info on what people do like if you use the forum search feature here though.


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

terminate_user
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by terminate_user » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:26 pm

frankajoerg wrote:
But how does it handle pedals? i read different reviews regarding this subject and most posts says that it doesnt handle pedals all that much!

Will put the delay pedals in the effect loop and the rest in front of the amp.

Thanks!
It baffles me every time I hear someone say the RV doesn't take well to pedals. Don't believe them because it isn't true! I've Had the RV50MKII for just over a year and there is not one thing I don't like regarding its interaction with ANY pedal I've put through it. If it helps, I run my OD/Distortion/Fuzz through the front and everything else in the loop. It sucks because of the extra spaghetti (cables) but is best IMO!

Let us know what you think when it arrives!!! CHEERS!
RV50MKII [black]
PPC212C [black]
'96 Marshall 1987x (Metropoulos Modded)
'92 Fender MIJ '72 Thinline Tele w/Flamed maple neck
'12 Fender American Deluxe Tele
'12Fender American Standard Tele
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Woodsie
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by Woodsie » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:55 pm

I use my RV50's OD channel exclusively for my dirt. I run a booster in the loop for clean boost. I do have a TS808 out front but I mostly use that on the clean channel for a very light breakup. Once in a while, I'll use it over the OD channel if I want a more nasally tone. Otherwise, no other dirt pedals necessary. I have a MXR Smart gate to tame some of the hiss and also the hum from my LP jr's P90. Delays and boost in the loop along with a MXR 10 Band, which is great for tweaking.
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Jondog
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by Jondog » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:00 pm

Used properly pedals work great. Quality transparent pedals subtley used can really add texture to an already great sound. Less is more on the pedals.
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Woodsie
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by Woodsie » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:01 pm

Jondog wrote:Used properly pedals work great. Quality transparent pedals subtley used can really add texture to an already great sound. Less is more on the pedals.
agreed 100%
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Invin
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by Invin » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:14 pm

While I can't speak for the Rockerverb 50, I use an MXR ZW44 overdrive with my TH30 and the noise gate is a must for me. I have the gain on the amp at about half, and the same on the OD. There's a noticeable feedback/hum with the OD on the dirty channel, but the noise gate takes it right out and works great (ISP Decimator). I'm not a djent guy, more an old school standard-tuning thrash guy, so I like having less gain on the amp but still getting the sustain from the OD for leads. I'm not using absurd amounts of gain, so it may just be that the ZW44 is a noisy OD (which it's known to be), but I'd go crazy without my noise gate. It takes away all the hum but still lets me get that natural feedback when I want it and doesn't seem to cut any sustain or tone.
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Wired
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by Wired » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:45 pm

all but one my distortion pedals left my board when I got my RV50. I'm awaiting my Emma Reezafratzits to get back from repair, and it will probably end up on my board for an additional flavor of high gain.

I used to have:
Xotic AC Booster
Dr. Scientist Elements
Crowther hot Cake
Xotic BB Preamp
TC Nova Drive
Mesa Boogie Throttle Box

now it's just the Hot Cake

The Throttle Box is still cool with the Mesa, and I can run it in "low" mode and get seriously ludicirious amounts of gain without feeding back. Throw it into high, and it's semi-controllable. But it all depends on the box. The BB Preamp will feedback like no ones business, and it's got less gain.

you just gotta try out different boxes until you find the one you like.
-LK
RV50, Vox AC30, Gibson LP Trad '14, Gibson ES-335 '04, PRS Cu24 '10, Fender Tele Pro, Gretsch Powerjet

DiabloS
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Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by DiabloS » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:05 am

Invin wrote: There's a noticeable feedback/hum with the OD on the dirty channel, but the noise gate takes it right out and works great (ISP Decimator). I'm not a djent guy, more an old school standard-tuning thrash guy, so I like having less gain on the amp but still getting the sustain from the OD for leads. I'm not using absurd amounts of gain, so it may just be that the ZW44 is a noisy OD (which it's known to be), but I'd go crazy without my noise gate. It takes away all the hum but still lets me get that natural feedback when I want it and doesn't seem to cut any sustain or tone.
I agree, I use an ISP decimator and it's been great to control both noise/hum and feedback. I think some of it has to do with the types of guitars/pickups I've used and the fact that I have to play almost facing my amp at our jam spot to get a good sound spread with our amps the way the room is configured. I leave it on 99% of the time, but every once in a while if I want more feedback or sustain if I'm picking lightly, I just disengage the pedal for those little parts. The rest of the time I don't have to worry about squealing feedback and it's dead quiet when I'm not playing... does very little to your tone too even when it's on moderately high.

As for pedals sounding good with Orange, I think a lot of times they do but you might have to be pickier with your settings to find the sweet spot compared to most other amps.
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jason41224
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by jason41224 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:30 am

imo, noise gates have far more drawbacks than benefits. you're gonna get a little bit of noise no matter what. but rock and roll is noisy. if the noise becomes unbearable, chances are you're either playing with way too much gain and your sound will be overcompressed and choked anyways; or your guitar/amp/pedals/etc have poor shielding, or some other problem.
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frankajoerg
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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by frankajoerg » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:55 am

thanks for all your replies guys! I will get the amp today or tomorrow and will test it tomorrow and let you know.

These pedals klon, peach fuzz and rat/ts808 will be shipped to me in a week so I will test the whole set up then and give my opinions about them along with the RV.

Currently I have no Orange cabs but only a 1960AX cab with G12M Greenbacks in it and I hope its gonna be a good match.
Not in term of looks of course but sound wise I hope it will be a killer combination as I cant afford any Orange cab any day soon.

Prices is Norway are outragous on these cabs..

will post pic etc as soon as I have it:)

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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by a.hun » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:19 am

frankajoerg wrote:thanks for all your replies guys! I will get the amp today or tomorrow and will test it tomorrow and let you know.

These pedals klon, peach fuzz and rat/ts808 will be shipped to me in a week so I will test the whole set up then and give my opinions about them along with the RV.

Currently I have no Orange cabs but only a 1960AX cab with G12M Greenbacks in it and I hope its gonna be a good match.
Not in term of looks of course but sound wise I hope it will be a killer combination as I cant afford any Orange cab any day soon.

Prices is Norway are outragous on these cabs..

will post pic etc as soon as I have it:)
You can do a lot worse then G12M-25s. I don't think they are the best with very high gain (prefer G12H-30s myself) and they are very mids focussed without massive highs or lows. But they are very organic drivers and you should be able to push them nicely with 50W. Should sound fantastic for cleans through traditional rock overdrive levels IMO.

You could always later swap the bottom two drivers for G12Hs to get the best of both worlds. Great combination - better IMO than the popular G12H / Vintage 30 combination.

As to the effects, hope you get some useful sounds, but there is definitely a danger that you'll just end up going with the straight Orange distortion. Pretty addictive.

Have fun anyway! :D


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

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Re: Rockerverb MKll 50 and overdrive pedals - feedback mania

Post by Borderline Productions » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:21 pm

A lot of distortion pedals make their way to e-bay after someone gets their RV50 because the distortion from the pedal does not sound as good as what you can get out of the dirty channel. Instead of a booster pedal, you can use the volume pot on your guitar or pickup selector switch.

As far as feedback, it is not untamable. I have played through mine with a semi-hollow body and and hollow-body jazz guitar (ES175). The feedback from the RV50 is not nearly a problem as with other amps.

A gate will cut the signal when it is below a certain level (such as background hum when you are not playing), I'm not sure how to interfer the feedback loop except for turning down the volume and moving in relation to the speaker cab.
Bob

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