AD30 too loud...

[JF3]

I've seen a million threads about lower wattage amps and all everyone wants to know is if they'll be loud enough to keep up in a live band situation. I can certainly understand "loud" is relative and there are certain situations and types of music where my impression of "loud" is not enough.

But for me, I've been struggling getting my AD30HTC loud enough to shine while not overpowering everything. Can't get it to 10 o'clock on volume dial at practice space or at gigs (small clubs, generally mic'd) without it drowning out the vocals and just being too much. I'm the single guitarist in my indie-garage rock band, play a strat w/humbucker in bridge through Avatar 2x12 with Eminence Wizards. What I'm going for most of the time is raw vintage OD, probably at the upper reaches of AD30's gain. Sometimes dirty cleans, sometimes heavier.

So my question is - and I'm far from an expert on such things - how much would changing speakers help in this situation? I hear Wizards are loud, and I was thinking of switching to greenbacks or similar as a relatively cost-effective way to help. When cranked up the rig sounds awesome. Perhaps if I'm mic'd I need to just turn the amp around, crank it up, and run it back through the monitors.

I've also been considering selling the AD30 and picking up a dual terror or tiny terror and ABY-ing with a DRRI. Shouldn't have to get that complicated!

[electricdresses]

Less sensitive speakers will do the trick. Wizards are loud as pile of poop and have a 100+ db sensitivity rating. Try something in the 90db - 95db range and it will be considerably less loud.

[toonHollow]

^^^ Agreed, Wizards are crazy efficient speakers. Greenbacks would definitely help your situation with earlier break-up.

[Hubaxe]

^^^ Agreed, Wizards are crazy efficient speakers. Greenbacks would definitely help your situation with earlier break-up.

Wizard and Governors have a 100-101db sensitivity. Very efficient speakers

[bclaire]

Is it "out front" volume that's the issue?

How about a piece of plexiglass to deflect the sound?

[Les Paul Lover]

Or how about an AD15?

[Invin]

When you say you're going for "raw vintage OD", are you using an overdrive pedal? If not, that can be a great way to get to the amp's sweet spot without cranking the volume.

[nlimbaugh]

I bet less efficient speakers will do it too.

[irish_admiral]

Most speakers are rated at 100db efficiency... why not just roll back on the master volume? You can crank it a bit without overpowering the vocals. Or just use a pedal.

Other than that, an AD15 would be better, but only 3db better. One less speaker though?

[ironlung40]

I think you just have to lower the MV and accept that you may not be able to get the exact tone you want at all venues and your preferred volume levels.

You may lower the MV and use a transparent boot (microamp by mxr) to hit the signal and make it snappier like it would be if you had the master way up. I do this all the time, and while it's not exactly the same, it still pushes the amp and makes it respond much like it would at higher levels without the pedal on....

also, Billy's Plexiglass idea is a wonderful solution. I've seen these used on halfstacks and they really take the edge off.

[Janglin_Jack]

Attenuator is one way. Dial in you sound and then click 4-db or -8db and you should be in good shape. Speaker changes to less efficient is another great way. Heritage Greenbacks are like 96db while a Wizard is 103db. V30 is either 99 or 100db.

I learned this with a JTM45 I built. Was using a combo G12H30 and V30 both at 100db. Amp was too loud before I got the right amount of crunch, (non master volume amp). Used an attenuator ans -4db was just right. ASince then got alll Heritage Greenbacks and amp is perfect with band no attenuator, (again 96db efficiency).

Another, more involved mod is a PPIMV, (Post Phase Inverter Master Volume). Dual concentric pot, some wire, resistor or two couple caps and some know how and you have a very effective and transparent attenuator.

I would either go speakers or an attenuator.

Mike

[Woodsie]

Is it "out front" volume that's the issue?

How about a piece of plexiglass to deflect the sound?

Sorry about the hijack. Billy, do you use that setup for your gigs? Why the angle? Does it work well? I'm interested. I really need to come out to one if your shows. See how the pros do it.

[Janglin_Jack]

I just read closer that you are using Wizards with 2x12. Wizards are very loud. I use one in a Mesa Express 1x12 25w and has plenty of clean volume for the band. Doubling speakers also gives you +3db. So if you drop from 2x12 to 1x12 that will drop -3db. Going from 103db to 100db is another 3db. Or two in 2x12 to 96db is another way. Wizards just a bit too efficient. Again, attenuator and leave as is, or think about speaker change.

Mike

[bclaire]

Is it "out front" volume that's the issue?

How about a piece of plexiglass to deflect the sound?

Sorry about the hijack. Billy, do you use that setup for your gigs? Why the angle? Does it work well? I'm interested. I really need to come out to one if your shows. See how the pros do it.

I used to do it back in the day but I don't do it anymore. The angle is to keep the sound around onstage and it actually helps the drummer a lot. It's what Stevie Ray used to do and John McLaughlin, too...

[JF3]

Thanks for all the great input!

I think I will eventually try switching in greenbacks, and until I can get around to that I'll keep fiddling with settings and pedals. I used a clean boost on all the time for a while and probably should give it another shot... Channel 1 with gain between 3 and full, and MV about 10 o'clock is right about where I've been most of the time lately, but that's where it's getting too loud and leaves me with nowhere to go for solos (rare) when I'm using channel 2 for cleans. I tried channel 1 clean and channel 2 dirty with gain at noon and MV up a bit more tonight at rehearsal and I missed channel 1. Speaker change may be just enough to straighten everything out.

Billy - thanks for the plexiglass idea. Nice. You'd do that unmic'd?

I definitely need to get out to see some of you local Orange masters.