AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

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fiveightandten
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AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by fiveightandten » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:28 am

I'd had the AD30TC 2x12 combo for long enough to form a solid opinion of it at this point, so I figured i'd do up a full in depth review (thank my job for the downtime to put this together today :mrgreen:) This will be LONG and wordy, but i'll try and lend opinions on things that I wanted to know about the amp before buying it. You can't always find a place to turn an amp up loud and actually hear how it sounds. Hopefully this will be able to supplement what you already know and guide you as to whether or not this is the right amp for you.

My background (as opinions are only good if you know their reference point):
I've been playing guitar for about 15 years. I've been primarily rhythm player for most that time, and I play in indie rock bands. My preferences are centered around medium gain crunch and rhythm tones. Though I do play lead in the band i'm in now and i'm really getting into excelling more as a lead player. I've owned a *lot* of amps, and a lot of expensive ones. The old stuff, Vox AC-30's, Marshall Superleads, JCM800's, JMP's, Hiwatts, vintage Orange OR series head, ect. My bands play loud...50W head on 10 loud. I rotate 4 or 5 guitars; Gibson SG, Les Pauls, Ric 360, Fender Tele. Anyways, on to the amp...

This is based on a 2006 AD30TC 2x12 combo that I bought used a few months ago. Be informed that they did change the transformer design a few times throughout production. So if you're buying a used one, do a little homework.

Design, Features, and build quality
You can find this stuff out pretty easily, but mind as well put it all in one place.
-2 Channels, foot switchable or switchable via toggle on the control panel
-Bass, Mid, Treble, Gain, Master volume for each channel
-Loaded with 2 Celestion V30's
-No reverb, no effects loop
-26" X 20.5" X 12", 85 lbs.
-Four 12AX-7's
-Four EL-84's
-One GZ34 rectifier tube

This is a modern mass produced amp. Nearly everything in it is it mounted to a PCB. Tube sockets, pots, jacks, and all. The overall fit and finish of the amp is excellent. Tolex is applied nicely. Grille, piping, and other aesthetics are all 100% spot on. I'd expect nothing less for the price tag. The grille cloth is super thick and very high quality. Passive electronic components are nice quality. Pots and switches have a nice robust feel to them. Switches flick back and forth with a satisfying thunk. Pots have smooth and weighty feel to them. The PCB is nice quality and nicely anchored. It's not the best i've ever seen, but pretty decent quality with respect to the wafer board, tracing, and layout. The chassis is nice and sturdy and the enameling is top notch. The face plate is nicely screened and high quality. The wood skids on the bottom (same as all Oranges) are a nice touch and I prefer them to rubber feet.

The amp is heavy, at 85 lbs. The big side handles make it easy to move, and it's not huge for a 2x12 combo. So outside of the weight, it's not bad. However, the little handles on the top should have been sized better so they're flush with the height of the amp. They are raised above everything else. If they thought lowering them wouldn't provide enough room for your fingers, the chassis should have been lowered and spaced out with shims. Just a nit picky little detail though.

Now the bad. The tolex is thin. It tears easily, especially around the sharper edges in the rear of the amp. The pre-tube shields are complete pieces of garbage. They deform too easily and I have one that likes to pop off. I'll have to get some better quality ones, but the bases are complete pieces of junk as well, so i'm not sure this will solve the problem.

The PCB is nice quality. It's well anchored and things are put together nicely. But I was surprised to see a few components in the amp that were "thrown" in. Where the schematic obviously calls for a single resistor, they must have been out of a few of them the day my amp was made, as they put 2 resistors twisted together in series to get the needed value. These resistors are identical to all the others in the amp, and inspection with a mirror doesn't yield any visible evidence the solders have ever been reflowed. It appears to be factory. This kind of thing is a complete joke for *any* reputable amp maker, let alone a well established name that commands the kind of pricing this amp does. (See pics of this below).

But overall, the amp is as well built as any modern amp design implemented in a reasonably well thought out fashion. It's surely gig worthy, road worthy, and should be pretty trouble free.

Sound
Let me start of by saying that I hate channel switchers. Hate them. I can't stand the abrupt change from a "clean" tone to a "dirty" one. I hate the feel and response of a channel that's been specifically designed to only be played distorted. But this isn't your typical channel switcher. "Twin Channel" is a bit of a stretch, as the two channels ARE distinctly different. But it's a far cry from your typical channel switcher. I love this about it. I use the 2 channels more as different tools so I can get different sounds for different songs, or with different guitars. I don't even hook the footswitch up, as I never switch channels mid-song.

Here's the quick summary:
Channel 1: Less gain, thicker, more low, less high. Midrange more prominent in the lower mids.
Channel 2: More gain, less low end, brighter, a little thinner. Midrange more prominent in the upper mids.

Both channels, ala Fender, give ZERO output with the tone controls set on zero. The tone controls act on their respective frequency ranges without as much interaction as some other circuits (Vox and Hiwatt, for instance). This is not bad or good, just a characteristic of the amp.

Channel 1:
Channel 1 is the the thicker of the 2 channels. It has that nice thick, low-midrangy, dark, wet sound to it that's characteristic of Oranges. Some complain that these amps are too dark. IMO, absolutely not. If you ask me, most amps are far too bright. This channel doesn't have a lot of sparkle. But it has plenty of top end to sound clear. Humbucker guitars sound thick and grunty through this. The notes have a nice amount of heft for a 30W amp with EL84's in it. But it's not a wide open crisp and chiming tone. It's more full bodied and round, with that signature prickly texture to the upper register. People who don't like Oranges call it fizzy. I call it prickly, or maybe even fuzzy. It is, however, pleasing to the ear. Single coil guitars sound flat out brilliant through this channel. The dark voicing, nice bottom end, and low midrange presence really even out the response from something like a Tele bridge pickup. I've never heard my Tele sound like it does through channel 1 of the AD30. A great pairing.

Channel 2:
Channel 2 is brighter. It has more gain, it sounds thinner than channel 1. People that compare the AD30 to the Vox AC-30 are talking about this channel. Does it sound like an AC-30? No. But it does a very cool chimey, grinding kind of sound that has nice sparkle while still retaining that characteristic Orange midrange and prickly texture. I do wish that this channel had a little more heft to it, as it sounds thin compared to Channel 1. But truth be told, it's not a terribly thin sounding channel. Being put in the context of channel 1 exacerbates that. Channel 2, with a single coil guitar, does sounds that you've never expect to hear come out of something covered in Orange tolex. This is obviously a popular amp. But even still, I think people typecast it into that characteristic Orange overdrive sound. It's quite good at doing a very unique chime with great upper midrange grind. I have yet to hear anything else like it. This, so far, is the thing about the amp that most surprised me.

Dynamic response
The master volumes on the amp work quite well. I hate master volumes, and it's been a long long time since i've owned an amp with a master. The Hiwatt has one, but it doesn't count as the pre-amp has no saturation to it, even on 10. This is the only master volume amp i've owned that i'm actually happy with the master down below 10. This is the entire reason why I bought it, so that's a good thing. Don't expect it to get whisper quiet. It's a 30W amp. But for a gigging musician that plays with a rock drummer and in rock clubs or loud bars, the master volumes will get you not only useable, but good tones at any workable volume above 1/2 on the master. The sound *does* change at different volumes. But not so much that you can't work around it.

I heard a lot of people call this amp springy, or saggy. Those are terms I use to describe my Vox, which I love. I don't find them to apply to the AD30 at all. Yes, it has a tube rectifier. Yes, it's cathode biased. But I don't find it to be a particularly spongy amp. This is in part due to the V30 speakers. 2 of them in the amp have a power handling of 120W. This is 4 times the output power of the amp cranked on full. The speakers aren't even breaking a sweat. The amp feels a lot different through a pair of Greenbacks or AlNiCo Blues.

I'd call the response of the amp sweet, forgiving, and maybe a little soft. But don't expect the springy bouncy attack you get from an AC-30 into 2 Celestion blues. The AD30 doesn't do that. The response, IMO, is just tight enough for it to sound aggressive when you want it, and just loose enough to sound sweet and forgiving. The dampening and response on the amp is spot on for what it does. You could change it in one direction or the other, but that would, IMO, be compromising one of the 2 channels. The response is middle of the road and a perfect compromise of the range of sounds that the amp does.

The amp is also VERY compressed. If you're one to roll back your guitar volume (or use a volume pedal), you'll know what I mean. There is probably less of a perceived volume difference between between "clean" and "full on dirty" than any other amp i've played. At first, I wasn't a fan, as i'm used to the picking transients slapping my ears and letting me know when i'm digging in. But truth be told, like any other time you get a new piece of gear, you learn to work with what it offers. I'm into it. And, the amp has 2 channels...if I really wanted to introduce more of a volume difference between clean and dirty...I could use the channel switching feature (as much as I shy away from that).

The amp doesn't have considerable headroom, even for a 30W EL84 amp. So if you're looking for loud pristine bell like cleans, look elsewhere. But the master volume and gain taper do work well to provide you with enough headroom that you can get cleans that aren't all that broken up near full volume, which is loud enough to keep up with just about any drummer. The fact that the amp is sooooo compressed means that it kind of masks that the headroom is on the low side.

Overall sound
I have a Vox AC-30. I love the amp to death, but it's an older model without a master volume...it's loud. I also have a '70s Orange OR-80. I love the dark overdrive, but again, it's a beast. The AD30 doesn't sound exactly like either of those amps. But it does sounds in the vein of those amps and does them close enough to keep me happy with it. Wait a minute? I'm happy with the amp because it sounds close enough to 2 others I like? That's not really the case, but i'd like to make a point. I think a lot of reviews and opinions about this amp tend to compare the AD30 to other amps. I know I was guilty of it. This was the first new Orange design that really hit the music scene after the OR-head of past years. We used the OR's as a yardstick to measure it. People used the Vox AC-30 as a yardstick to measure it. People compared it to Marshalls. After spending some time with the amp, I realized that thinking about it as "A fuzzier AC-30", or "a beefier Marshall", etc was kind of missing the point. The amp really does do its own thing, and that thing is worthy of being recognized.

What I *don't* like
Nothing is perfect. Here's my nitpicking about the sound of the amp. Although it's nice that the 2 channels are different, I feel that neither one of them is perfectly voiced. I find myself switching on channel 1 and thinking, "Ehh, I wish is was a liiiitle more clear"...then switching to channel 2 and thinking, "Oh...there's the clarity, but now it sounds too thin, I want more low end". Then back to channel 1. Truth be told, i'd be happier with a single channel that was voiced right in the middle of these 2. Maybe that's what the single channel AD30 sounded like. I've never played one, I wouldn't know. I'm a tweaker, and I *may* get in there and play around lightly with some cap values. We'll see.

Also, the speakers. I mentioned the power handling before. The tone of the V30's is spot on for the amp. But I do wish I was getting better dynamic response from having speakers that are working a little bit in the amp. I've tried a single V30, and although it feels nicer, it sounds thinner. I've tried Greenbacks, and they don't sound as crisp. Same thing with the blues. I think those speakers are too warm and don't have enough top end for this amp to sound like it should. Nice choices, but not my preference for this. In the end, I don't have a solution, but that doesn't mean there's not room for improvement. Custom speakers would skyrocket cost. I'll deal with the V30's. But if you're a stickler on dynamic response from cone breakup, be aware that you get none of that here. Most will feel the amp doesn't need it. But if you're used to it, you miss it a bit.

The "Q" of the bass and treble tone controls is a bit too wide. I find if I want a little more clarity, the treble knob brings up other frequencies I don't want. I find if I want a little more or less bass, it affects too much of the low end spectrum. The mid knob, in comparison, doesn't occupy enough space. If you're happy with all the knobs set the same relative to one another, this is not an issue. But if you're the type that puts EQ knobs in extreme positions, you are likely to notice it.


Overall
This amp is for you if you are looking for:
-A channel switching amp with master volumes that will make you happy even if you hate that stuff.
-An amp that sounds good over a reasonable range of volumes and has a nice master volume that will keep both you and the sound guy pretty happy.
-A modern mass produced amp that, although a little overpriced for the build, is worth it in circuit design and the overall package.
-Something that does full bodied overdrive, and chiming clean all in one package.

This amp is NOT for you if you are looking for:
-High clean headroom
-Super tight distortion and/or gobs of gain
-A channel switcher that does pristine clean *CLICK* head banging over drive.
-A Vox AC-30 with Orange tolex
-An OR-80 with a clean channel
-Reverb, effect loop, or lots of knobs and switches

Hope that helps some people. On to the pics...

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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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Gray
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by Gray » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:22 am

fiveightandten wrote:-A channel switcher that does pristine clean *CLICK* head banging over drive.
Mine does. :|

jason41224
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jason41224 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:27 am

excellent review. i found myself agreeing with just about everything on there. and glad you've finally come about about your AD30! ;)
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Jason
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a.hun
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by a.hun » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:48 pm

Nick, I'm really glad you're back active on the forum again. Your written amp descriptions are always spot on. I've seen you describe the sounds of vintage Oranges, Marshalls (especially '800s), Voxen, Hiwatt, Ampeg, and you always nail exactly what they are about. You know your amps and tell them exactly the way they are.

Not owning an AD30 myself (though I've played them) I'd still say that is the best description of what they are and what they do I've read here, or anywhere for that matter.

I've also wondered how the single channel ones compare to the TC ones. 'Don't know' is the answer, but hopefuly you'll get a chance to try one and write that up sometime too. I agree that having it voiced somewhere in between would be about perfect.

I really hope you'll get to try a Rocker 30 too at some point, even if only to compare it with the AD30 for us. That would make a lot of my interminable R.30 / AD30 waffling redundant. Personally I really do prefer the R.30 for my own needs and playing style. It just seems to have way more of the vintage Orange 'attitude' to it to my mind. But these amps are so different - especially dynamically - that most people will lean one way or the other pretty strongly. Both GREAT amps though, and I'm really glad you're getting what you want out of the AD30.

Great review! Bookmarked. :!:


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

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In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jockeapa » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Very solid review, i can almost hear the sounds in my head based on your description!

Thank You!
Jocke

Rocker 30C
TT
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by OrangePaul » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:07 pm

Yeah thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts Nick.

The single channel (heads at least) seem pretty rare. I've been keeping one eye open for one but without success so far.
Paul.

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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jamison162 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:48 am

Great review and write up. I've owned a Rockerverb 50 for 6 years and almost bought an AD30HTC instead when I was amp shopping in 2007. I've played the AD30 on a few different occasions and it is a great amp. I may order another soon - in black!! I played the AD30HTC combo with V30's and it was great; but I've also played the head through an open back 2x12 with G12H/Blue and Oh My!!!! Much better than V30's, of course I've never been a V30 fan and have used numerouse "other" speakers with my RV50 over the last 6 years (mainly Scumback M75's).

The thing I don't like about the RV50 clean channel is I feel it has too much clean headroom and can be a little harsh/sterile sounding (although I think it is much better than the Rocker 30). I've also tried a TH30 and it's clean with really sweet sounding, gain was a little to aggressive for me though.

So that leads me to a couple of questions (it's been a couple yrs or more since I've played one) :
(1) Are the clean and edge of breakup tones on the AD30HTC "sweeter" than the 6V6 RV50?
(2) Is the gain on the AD30 more open, less aggressive, more "vintage" sounding if you will than the RV50?
(3) Does the AD30 "take" pedals better than the RV50?

Anyone with experience with both of these amps feel free to chime in here.
Last edited by jamison162 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jason41224 » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:11 am

jamison162 wrote:So that leads me to a couple of questions:
(1) Are the clean and edge of breakup tones on the AD30HTC "sweeter" than the 6V6 RV50?
(2) Is the gain on the AD30 more open, less aggressive, more "vintage" sounding if you will than the RV50?
not sure what you're looking for with 'sweeter'. but the AD30 is all about edge of breakup tones. that's where the amp really shines (and it really is nice). cleans are nice, but probably the opposite problem you have with your rockerverb...pretty limited headroom, at least in the purest sense.

and secondly, yes the gain is much less aggressive. i don't own a rockerverb, but to give you an idea, the gain all the way up on the AD30 (either channel) is about as much gain as the Rocker's gain at noon. so it's rocking, but not really metally-aggressive in any way or form. the gain itself is a little fuzzy too when cranked higher...almost like a woolier AC30 with more lower-mids would be the best way to describe the AD cranked.
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jamison162 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:53 pm

Is the AD30HTC still made in the UK...or does it say Made in PRC. I see alot of Oranges no longer sport the British Flag sticker like my RV50 does.
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jamison162 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:18 pm

I've been reading a ton of reviews/posts about the AD30HTC and the "lack of headroom". There's things you can do to address headroom and to dial the amp in, but these things also affect the overall tone of the amp. Besides your guitar pickups/ouput, in dealing with the amp itself I can think of 4 options, 3 of which are tube related.

1) Speakers: Smaller magnet (M), lower wattage speakers typically have less headroom and breakup sooner. Heavy magnet speakers (G12H) and higher wattage speakers will tend to have more clean headroom/less breakup.

2) Each channel has it's own preamp circuit, incluing eq, gain structure (12ax7's). You can substitute a lower gain preamp tube (5751, 12AT7) in one or both channels in order to gain some headroom.

3) The AD30HTC is tube rectified. You can substitute a solid state rectifier for the tube to gain headroom, although it affects the overall feel of the amp.

4) The AD30HTC is cathode biased which means you can't dial the bias in. In this case it's good to order your matched power tubes with the amount of headroom desired in mind. You can contact your vendor and ask for a specific "grade" of EL84's (i.e. early breakup, medium or late breakup = more headroom).

Hope this info. helps the general discussion.
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jamison162 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:18 pm

Looks like everyone jumped ship on this thread.

Can the AD30HTC do Jet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iay9gyLNdBw
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by jason41224 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:42 pm

oh yes, the AD30 can do Jet. it excels at their kinda sound.

and as far as I know, the AD30, RV, and TV (along with custom shop options) remain to be built in the UK. i hadn't even realized their UK has shrank that much. the Terrors, OR series, and TH series is all in PRC.
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fiveightandten
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by fiveightandten » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:12 am

Thanks for the replies everyone. Glad this can help some people out.
a.hun wrote:Nick, I'm really glad you're back active on the forum again. Your written amp descriptions are always spot on. I've seen you describe the sounds of vintage Oranges, Marshalls (especially '800s), Voxen, Hiwatt, Ampeg, and you always nail exactly what they are about. You know your amps and tell them exactly the way they are.

Not owning an AD30 myself (though I've played them) I'd still say that is the best description of what they are and what they do I've read here, or anywhere for that matter.

I've also wondered how the single channel ones compare to the TC ones. 'Don't know' is the answer, but hopefuly you'll get a chance to try one and write that up sometime too. I agree that having it voiced somewhere in between would be about perfect.

I really hope you'll get to try a Rocker 30 too at some point, even if only to compare it with the AD30 for us. That would make a lot of my interminable R.30 / AD30 waffling redundant. Personally I really do prefer the R.30 for my own needs and playing style. It just seems to have way more of the vintage Orange 'attitude' to it to my mind. But these amps are so different - especially dynamically - that most people will lean one way or the other pretty strongly. Both GREAT amps though, and I'm really glad you're getting what you want out of the AD30.

Great review! Bookmarked. :!:


Andy.
Thanks Andy. I'll keep my ear to the ground for a R.30, if even just to pick one up to keep it for a little while and flip it. I've done that in the past, so it wouldn't be the first time. If I grab one, you'll be the first to know. :mrgreen:
jamison162 wrote:I've been reading a ton of reviews/posts about the AD30HTC and the "lack of headroom". There's things you can do to address headroom and to dial the amp in, but these things also affect the overall tone of the amp. Besides your guitar pickups/ouput, in dealing with the amp itself I can think of 4 options, 3 of which are tube related.

1) Speakers: Smaller magnet (M), lower wattage speakers typically have less headroom and breakup sooner. Heavy magnet speakers (G12H) and higher wattage speakers will tend to have more clean headroom/less breakup.

2) Each channel has it's own preamp circuit, incluing eq, gain structure (12ax7's). You can substitute a lower gain preamp tube (5751, 12AT7) in one or both channels in order to gain some headroom.

3) The AD30HTC is tube rectified. You can substitute a solid state rectifier for the tube to gain headroom, although it affects the overall feel of the amp.

4) The AD30HTC is cathode biased which means you can't dial the bias in. In this case it's good to order your matched power tubes with the amount of headroom desired in mind. You can contact your vendor and ask for a specific "grade" of EL84's (i.e. early breakup, medium or late breakup = more headroom).

Hope this info. helps the general discussion.
Thanks for the input. Though I haven't tried these things in the AD30 in particular, some of them don't actually do much (or anything in many cases) to give you more headroom. Personally, i'm not bothered by the lack of headroom, as I don't really do pristine cleans. But for the people that try and use the amp as a traditional channel switcher (one channel dedicated to clean, one for distortion), they may be flipping back and forth between channels wondering which is the "clean" one. And there isn't one.

-Nick
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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fiveightandten
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by fiveightandten » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:16 am

jason41224 wrote:oh yes, the AD30 can do Jet. it excels at their kinda sound.
+1 That's what this amp does.

-Nick
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'71 GRO100 || '96 OR-80 || AD30 || '64 AC-50 || AC-30TBX || Hiwatt DR504 || HI-TONE HT30
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Re: AD30TC 2x12 combo, in depth review

Post by Bensen » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:37 am

jamison162 wrote:...
(1) Are the clean and edge of breakup tones on the AD30HTC "sweeter" than the 6V6 RV50?
(2) Is the gain on the AD30 more open, less aggressive, more "vintage" sounding if you will than the RV50?
(3) Does the AD30 "take" pedals better than the RV50?...
(1)yes (2)yes (3)no

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