I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this normal?

[DiabloS]

My question is this - if I was to re-valve, what can I expect from the AD30 in comparison to the DT? Should it not be heads and shoulders above the DT, given its price tag and high recommendations? How is it possible that we should be even comparing the two?

I wouldn't assume that just because an amp costs more than another it will sound much better. I could have bought several DT's with the cost of my TV50, but I honestly don't even find the TV50 sounds that much better than the DT. It sounds beefier because it has a bigger transformer, it has way more options on it but the core tone of the DT can hang with even the most expensive amp in the Orange line imo, if that's the kind of sound you're going for anyways. The DT is only cheap to buy because it has no headshell, it's not made in the UK and has very few bells and whistles, but it can easily sound just as good as other amps 2X or 3X its price.

That's not to say you wouldn't prefer to tone of an AD30, but if so it won't have anything to do with its price tag. If I were given the choice of any 2 Orange amps, the DT is still my 2nd favorite regardless of price.

[irish_admiral]

Couple of thoughts...

You can at least swap out some of the preamp valves from your DT if that sounds fine, or swap between channels on the AD. If the amp in the shop sounded great when you played it, then chances are that something else is screwing up with the amp.

Second, if you're trying to 'make' the AD sound like your DT, chances are you prefer the DT sound!

[StratusX]

I, like everyone else, recommend a full retube. Electro Harmonix tubes are known to be great with the AD30s, and recommended by people who typically prefer JJs in their amps. I'd recommend EHX for preamp and power tubes. They're brighter and slightly more agressive and really help the amp shine.

TungSols, for the record are also good in the preamp.

Hope this helps

[irish_admiral]

I'm not recommending a full revalve just yet - it might be worth establishing whether the valves are the issue!

As I mentioned, you've got the same complement of valves in the DT as the AD30, so if you know the ones in the DT are good, why not swap them in and see what happens? May save you the cost of a revalve.

[tremolo arm]

I'm not recommending a full revalve just yet - it might be worth establishing whether the valves are the issue!

As I mentioned, you've got the same complement of valves in the DT as the AD30, so if you know the ones in the DT are good, why not swap them in and see what happens? May save you the cost of a revalve.

Good advice!
Apologies for the newb question, but is it a simple case of swapping, i.e. no biasing or any special connections / re-connections needed?
Is it a relatively simple thing to do?

[irish_admiral]

In this case, yes.

Preamp valves (if they're the ECC81, 82, 83 variety - aka. 12AX7, 12AT7 etc) can always just be swapped.

Power valves can sometimes be swapped as some amps are subject to a set bias, or self bias which means you can just swap valves in. It's important to check you're using the correct type of valve first though. The AD30 is one such amp (you can just put in any matched quad of EL84 or E84L valves) and it should be ok.

[tremolo arm]

In this case, yes.

Preamp valves (if they're the ECC81, 82, 83 variety - aka. 12AX7, 12AT7 etc) can always just be swapped.

Power valves can sometimes be swapped as some amps are subject to a set bias, or self bias which means you can just swap valves in. It's important to check you're using the correct type of valve first though. The AD30 is one such amp (you can just put in any matched quad of EL84 or E84L valves) and it should be ok.

Thanks. And happy new year!

[irish_admiral]

Just on replacing the valves, if you haven't done it before, don't tug, but gently rock the valve from side to side until you feel it come loose in its seating, and you can then tug out. The preamp valves will have metal sheaths to come off first, and the power valves will most likely have spring retainers.

If you see any bent pins at the bottom of the valve, you can straighten them up gently and slowly using some needle nose pliers.

[tremolo arm]

OK, so I swapped the valves (tubes) between DT and AD and the difference was not really that noticeable. The DT valves sounded a bit gain-ier, but not my much.

I also chose a moment where all neighbors were out and tested the amp at a higher volume and the tone improved drastically with the master volume being progressively increased.

I also found a really useful sound, diming the master volume and reducing the gain to a minimum. That way the cleans are really wonderful (strat sounding very stratty - especially in the in-between positions), then running an over drive pedal in front (I use the Lovepedal Kalamazoo) gives that warm, thick, 3D distortion that I am so fond of. So with the help of the pedal, I seem to be able to get closer.

However, I am still contemplating whether it is worth keeping the AD, especially when the DT gives the AD such a great run for the money.

If I was to go down the route of changing valves, which ones would everyone recommend? I found these two sets at Watford Valves (very local to me).

I would be interested in the option which delivers an earlier break up point, i.e. allows for the master volume to be run higher.

http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2241" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2232" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Les Paul Lover]

OK, so I swapped the valves (tubes) between DT and AD and the difference was not really that noticeable. The DT valves sounded a bit gain-ier, but not my much.

I also chose a moment where all neighbors were out and tested the amp at a higher volume and the tone improved drastically with the master volume being progressively increased.

I also found a really useful sound, diming the master volume and reducing the gain to a minimum. That way the cleans a really wonderful (strat sounding very stratty - especially in the in-between positions), then running an over drive pedal in front (I use the Lovepedal Kalamazoo) gives that warm, thick, 3D distortion that I am so fond of. So with the help of the pedal, I seem to be able to get closer.

However, I am still contemplating whether it is worth keeping the AD, especially when the DT gives the AD such a great run for the money.

If I was to go down the route of changing valves, which ones would everyone recommend? I found these two sets at Watford Valves (very local to me).

I would be interested in the option which delivers an earlier break up point, i.e. allows for the master volume to be run higher.

http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2241" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=2232" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So it sounds like your original valves were fine then.

Personaly, before to sink another £130/£140 in it, I'd 1st decide whether I'd keep the amp or not. You may improve your amp's tone with new high quality valves, but you will not change the amp.
If I were you, I'd sit on it for a couple of month and see how useful that AD30 is to you.

I did that to a Marshall DSL combo - it had a good rock tone, but it spent 2 months gathering dust ext to my RV50. I sold it off.... and bought an AD15.....

As for the Harma valves, I've only ever heard good things about them.
Very tempted to try some myself!!!!!

Edit: considering there's only £10 difference between the sets, I might be tempted by the Cryo set too.....

[Woodsie]

I remember this forumite (can't remember user name though!!!) who scored and AD30 and was very disappointed until a full revalve, then loved it to bits.
:

You may be referring to me. I bought mine used and it didn't have the stock valves in it. I was originally a little disappointed with it at first. I'm not really sure the new valves had as much to do with me liking it as spending time with it. In the end though, I decided it just wasn't for me. I bought a RV50 MKII. If I could afford to keep both, I certainly would but, the AD has to go. I spent so much time and money chasing a tone I couldn't get with the AD. Not without pedals anyway. The RV's reverb and loop were also big considerations.

[irish_admiral]

Watford valves are a good bunch of guys, but I wouldn't bother getting the kits. Just order separates.

I've got these in mine:

http://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=878" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm happy with them as I wanted more clean headroom. Get a matched quad.

In terms of preamp valves, I tend to just pick up odd ones here and there as you can mix and match them to suit what you want. I've got a Mullard ECC81 in the phase invertor in mine, but can't remember what else i've got. Probably some Electro Harmonix valves, and a 7025 somewhere.

As the guys above are saying though, if you're after a tone you've already got, there's no point keeping the AD30. If you're looking for something different, it may help you.

[iblastoff]

i've had lots of orange heads in my household from the tiny terror to rockerverb 100 to thunderverb 50 to the coveted rocker 30. the dual terror is still my favourite

[irish_admiral]

I never coveted the Rocker 30.

Tried it and didn't like it. It didn't work for what I wanted it to!

[Les Paul Lover]

I never coveted the Rocker 30.

Tried it and didn't like it. It didn't work for what I wanted it to!

I've tried it several times, and beside the clean channel, very similar to my RV, it doesn't do it for me either.
Thanks to this forum, it still is on my ebay watch list....

Woodsie, i'm afraid i honestly cant remember if that was yours or not!