I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this normal?

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oranginator
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by oranginator » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:50 pm

I saw a used AD30 at Guitar Center (plugged into an Orange cab).

I was so thrilled to try it out for the first time.

I must say that it sounds good. However, it does NOT beat the Rocker. I can already tell that the AD30's gain channel (though it sounds "good") would get lost in the mix. The Rocker pierces with ballsyness. The AD30 is just more fluffy fuzzy. The Rocker has a unique voice....a fine blend between a classic Marshall and a classic Orange. It has the body of an Orange, but the attack of a Marshall which makes it the best sounding amp on the planet.

I certainly wouldn't mind having an AD30 around if I was rich, but no way is it better than the Rocker 30. The Rocker 30's clean channel also allows for low-volume pedal-stomping madness, which makes is suitable for bedroom playing.

Neither of these amps are optimal for progressive rock (progressive rock requires more delay, chorus, and other various effects that are best used in an effects loop), but the Rocker nails classic rock better than the AD30 does. The Dual Terror probably nails it better, too.

My ears are still open for an Orange combo that has an effects loop that can nail classic rock as well as progressive rock that is around $1,000.

Nothing against the AD30. It's all about what music you play. My band's job is that we have to emulate Jimmy Page's sound found in "The Song Remains the Same", and the Rocker nails his Marshall tone. Using my OCD pedal with my classic 30 gets pretty close too.
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Woodsie
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by Woodsie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:23 am

Les Paul Lover wrote:
irish_admiral wrote:I never coveted the Rocker 30.

Tried it and didn't like it. It didn't work for what I wanted it to!
I've tried it several times, and beside the clean channel, very similar to my RV, it doesn't do it for me either.
Thanks to this forum, it still is on my ebay watch list.... :roll:

Woodsie, i'm afraid i honestly cant remember if that was yours or not! :oops:
Maybe, maybe not. Story sounded earily familiar.
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irish_admiral
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by irish_admiral » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:32 am

I must say that it sounds good. However, it does NOT beat the Rocker. I can already tell that the AD30's gain channel (though it sounds "good") would get lost in the mix. The Rocker pierces with ballsyness. The AD30 is just more fluffy fuzzy. The Rocker has a unique voice....a fine blend between a classic Marshall and a classic Orange. It has the body of an Orange, but the attack of a Marshall which makes it the best sounding amp on the planet
Mmm, that's very subjective and based on the music you play - listen to a few of the recordings that some of the guys have done on here with AD30s and you'd revise your opinion!

As for the mix, you've got a pretty poor sound tech if he can't make any guitar tone cut or punch through.

The AD is certainly fuzzier in character when you crank the gain up, whereas the RV have a fizzier and flatter more modern-sounding overdrive.

Horses for courses!
Joe

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Orange AD15, Matamp 1224, Fender 'JD' Tele, G&L ASAT, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Eggle Kanuga, Avalon D25, Warwick FNA Jazzman, Eden Nemesis / Bergantino EX112S, Eastman MD305 & other stuff...

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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:26 pm

It is a very personal thing which amp is best - though usually the best is mine......... :mrgreen:


Joe, just looked at your sig - you did score an AD15 then?
What do you think of it? I seem to have missed you NAD thread if you did one.

Are you trying to sell your AD30R as well? I saw one gumtree cardiff which I thought might have been yours?
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
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Secondhand Dan
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by Secondhand Dan » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:50 pm

In my experience it takes an AD30 an abnormally long time to fully "warm up." The tones I get out of it after it has been cooking the tubes for a half hour are much different than the tones when I first boot her up. YMMV but I would give the amp a little while, especially because you are used to the sound of your DT.

That being said, I owned a Tiny Terror and an AD30 at the same time, and they both sounded great, and wouldn't really say one sounded better than the other.
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oranginator
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by oranginator » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:58 pm

irish_admiral wrote:
I must say that it sounds good. However, it does NOT beat the Rocker. I can already tell that the AD30's gain channel (though it sounds "good") would get lost in the mix. The Rocker pierces with ballsyness. The AD30 is just more fluffy fuzzy. The Rocker has a unique voice....a fine blend between a classic Marshall and a classic Orange. It has the body of an Orange, but the attack of a Marshall which makes it the best sounding amp on the planet
Mmm, that's very subjective and based on the music you play - listen to a few of the recordings that some of the guys have done on here with AD30s and you'd revise your opinion!

As for the mix, you've got a pretty poor sound tech if he can't make any guitar tone cut or punch through.

The AD is certainly fuzzier in character when you crank the gain up, whereas the RV have a fizzier and flatter more modern-sounding overdrive.

Horses for courses!
I think much too often around here my opinion gets dismissed. I find this baffling based on my experience level and what I own/owned. I love being challenged to a good discussion so I can broaden my horizons, but the dismissal thing is really annoying. I'd love to jam with each one of you so that maybe your opinions of me may increase somewhat. :)

Joe, I don't think you're saying anything I haven't said, but I feel that my points are being ignored like usual. I've mentioned a few times which is better for what type of music. The AD30 cannot do what the Rocker can do if you are wanting basic, in-your face Marshall/Orange Zeppelin classic rock. If you want a more modern amp that has the potential to be more versatile, then the AD30 may have the upper hand. But if classic, old school is in your blood, the Rocker is the greatest amp on the planet, bar none. Sorry, but that "subjective opinion" ain't never changing. In-fact, I doubt that the AD30 can do as good as far as low-volumes on the clean channel than the Rocker 30 can do, otherwise it would be a useless amp for my bedroom.

Fact- the Rocker cuts harder than the AD30 and hits your face like a load of bricks. I don't even know what a sound tech has to do with this statement; I don't even know how this is debatable. I'm not going to listen to recordings or mix-downs of an AD30 in order to revise my opinion. I'm going to use both amps in a band setting and derive my opinion from that, not from a mix down. If you've played on a Rocker, you would understand why I say this. The AD30 is closer to the TH-30 than it is the Rocker 30 as far as attack and body goes--It's a world of fizzy/body that sounds good, but it doesn't pierce with meat. You've heard the saying constantly around here that the Rocker has "Balls". I'm talking about the "balls" here.

Like Les Paul Lover says, people are going to defend what they own. I'm not out to attack the AD30. I said it was a great amp. My favorite AD30 sound is Switchfoot's "Meant to Live" (awesome showcase of the AC30 and the AD30). I'm trying to say which one is better for what. I just wanted to reply here and say that I enjoyed the AD30, but it doesn't have the balls and the uniqueness of a Rocker. The AD30 would have a tough time producing this sound, but the Rocker can (the sound quality is pretty poor, but if you listened to this track in lossless, you would get a piercing ballsy marshall tone that the Rocker 30 has. And yes, part of it is Jimmy's playing technique which is scraping the notes near the bridge):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3c0FTITRqA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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tremolo arm
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by tremolo arm » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:25 pm

oranginator wrote: but if you listened to this track in lossless, you would get a piercing ballsy marshall tone that the Rocker 30 has. And yes, part of it is Jimmy's playing technique which is scraping the notes near the bridge):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3c0FTITRqA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oranginator, do you believe the Rocker to be the amp that can get closest to that sound?

I'm asking this because, I absolutely love Page's tone on this concert - not just this song but the entire gig, which I have on DVD. I'd give my entire gear to get a rig which can sound (at least a bit) like that!

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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by DiabloS » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:29 pm

tremolo arm wrote:
oranginator wrote: but if you listened to this track in lossless, you would get a piercing ballsy marshall tone that the Rocker 30 has. And yes, part of it is Jimmy's playing technique which is scraping the notes near the bridge):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3c0FTITRqA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oranginator, do you believe the Rocker to be the amp that can get closest to that sound?

I'm asking this because, I absolutely love Page's tone on this concert - not just this song but the entire gig, which I have on DVD. I'd give my entire gear to get a rig which can sound (at least a bit) like that!
I can't view that link from work, but all this talk of Page's tone and didn't he use an AD30 during the Celebration day concert?
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by jason41224 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:47 pm

DiabloS wrote:
tremolo arm wrote:
oranginator wrote: but if you listened to this track in lossless, you would get a piercing ballsy marshall tone that the Rocker 30 has. And yes, part of it is Jimmy's playing technique which is scraping the notes near the bridge):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3c0FTITRqA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oranginator, do you believe the Rocker to be the amp that can get closest to that sound?

I'm asking this because, I absolutely love Page's tone on this concert - not just this song but the entire gig, which I have on DVD. I'd give my entire gear to get a rig which can sound (at least a bit) like that!
I can't view that link from work, but all this talk of Page's tone and didn't he use an AD30 during the Celebration day concert?
he did. he also used an OR50, a couple custom hiwatts, a couple marshalls, and probably some more during the entire performance....so the fact he used ONE AD30 doesn't matter that much, haha. but point taken.

fwiw, the AD30 actually sits a little bit better in the mix to my ears than the Rocker, at least if you're comparing dirty sounds. the AD (on either channel) has a lot less bass than the Rocker, and a comparable amount of midrange. it also has a lot more treble bite to it, which one might hear as fizz/fuzz but it cuts through the mix beautifully. although, i think the Rocker has a more pleasing clean sound (though i'd be one of the only people on earth to think that!), it's got more body to it and still has plenty of chime, and takes pedals a little better because the highs are a little attenuated compared to the AD (regardless of where you set the EQ)
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by oranginator » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:50 pm

I would actually bet money that the Rocker will be the closest amp to this tone (It was my reason for dropping the TH-30 and picking it up in the first place). I have this concert on Blu-ray, and I absolutely love the tone and the concert (I listen to it in lossless with a very nice sound system). Jimmy uses his Marshall most of the time. You'll see him use his Orange Metamp for a few songs later in the concert.

The Rocker is arguably Orange's most "retro amp" (It's actually considered "boutique" by many shops) that has a Marshall edge, the Rocker will give you this sound. This concert is a great example of what an amp should sound like. Ballsy, loud, and percing with plenty of grunt. There's no fizz or fuzz, and Page never gets lost in the mix. The Rocker is more of a Marshall than an Orange IMO, but that can be debated.

I use my '58 VOS Gibby Les Paul (Page uses a '58 in this concert too) plugged into the Rocker, and I play about 3 songs live from this concert, and I believe that I nail the tone almost exactly. Like I was saying before, it's my job to emulate Jimmy Page. Of course, to be 100% exact, you must be Jimmy Page, and must have his exact same equipment and play the same exact way he does. Being that it's impossible, the Rocker IS the classic rock amp if you want to emulate this concert, if you choose to do it with Orange.

I've only seen page's recent concert...looks like he was playing with the Foo Fighters. His sound was no where near as good as it was with the Song Remains the Same Concert. Sounded much more modern and forgettable. I think he was playing through an Orange, but I can't remember which one.
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by irish_admiral » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:30 pm

Hi Oranginator

Not to dismiss your views mate, I was just picking up on one or two things you said. Much as I missed your caveats, so I think you missed mine.

The Rocker & Terror series amps are fairly high gain, and are tapping into a sound market which is much more modern than the AD series amps are. They've got more gain stages, and more gain on tap. End of. Yes, I agree with your opinion that they're somewhere between a Marshall and an older Orange.
Fact- the Rocker cuts harder than the AD30 and hits your face like a load of bricks. I don't even know what a sound tech has to do with this statement; I don't even know how this is debatable.
I haven't disagreed with you, and for the record, I AM a sound tech! The point I was making was that any good sound tech should be able to make an amplifier stand out in a band mix if they want to, irrespective of what it sounds like before any reinforcement.
If you want a more modern amp that has the potential to be more versatile, then the AD30 may have the upper hand.
I probably disagree here, given that the AD30 was probably a variant on the AC30 theme, but with a darker tone and more powerful lower midrange. The Rocker and Thunder series unashamedly cater for the higher gain crew, which isn't exactly old school. Anyway, we may just be talking semantics here. The AD is very much a midgain amp with a fuzzy character when pushed, whilst the Rockers are much higher gain with a flatter sounding midrange.
In-fact, I doubt that the AD30 can do as good as far as low-volumes on the clean channel than the Rocker 30 can do, otherwise it would be a useless amp for my bedroom.
Probably correct, and again, i've said little about low volume capabilities of either amp - the ADs need to get the master section up a bit to sound good. For the record, I don't particularly like the 'natural' channel on the Rocker as you've got no tone shaping capability, although if it sounds good with your guitar without, that's fine... the point is that it won't work for every guitar for every song. YMMV.

I'm not interested in bedroom volume. If I was, I wouldn't be using a valve amp!
I'm not going to listen to recordings or mix-downs of an AD30 in order to revise my opinion.
Your loss - Billy here posted a couple of nice recordings with his AD30 where it cuts through the band mix very nicely. That's all I was saying.
I'm going to use both amps in a band setting and derive my opinion from that, not from a mix down.
Fair enough - i'm a gigging musician also so that's what I do too. My AD30 has seen quite a lot of use in the last few years and sounds fine in the live mix. I generally see a few more AD series amps used live than I do RV series ones.
If you've played on a Rocker, you would understand why I say this.
I have. In fact I played them all as soon as they came out, and with my guitars. I've played nearly every current production Orange amp!
The AD30 is closer to the TH-30 than it is the Rocker 30 as far as attack and body goes
Sorry, think I disagree with this one. Although i'm comparing the higher wattage models, one TV channel sounded very like the RV's dirt channel, and the other sounded like much more of a metal machine.

Anyway, I hope this has not ignored what you've said - I was just pointing out a few areas that I wasn't sure I agreed with you on. I'm sure you're a fab player, and far better than I am, but that's not got a lot to do with deciding how to sit an electric guitar tone in a live FOH mix, which is what I am bothered about as it's what the audience hears!

Keep contributing here - I value your opinions and views just as the other guys do, although I reserve my final comment as being...
Horses for courses
Joe

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irish_admiral
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by irish_admiral » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:38 pm

Les Paul Lover wrote:Joe, just looked at your sig - you did score an AD15 then?
What do you think of it? I seem to have missed you NAD thread if you did one.

Are you trying to sell your AD30R as well? I saw one gumtree cardiff which I thought might have been yours?
Hey...

Yeah, Chris (Bink) from the forum sold me his as he's moved to the US now, but had left his amp at home, so it worked well for both of us :) . It sounds great, and i've put a Heritage G12H in it... there was no NAD thread from me as it's the same as my 30R minus the reverb, a speaker and a few watts!

I'm moving on the 30R as I don't need the extra volume it provides, and wanted something with a smaller footprint I could carry myself as my back is a bit shot these days. So that ad is probably mine... I put one on Musicradar, one on the SoS classifieds. Can't remember if I did Gumtree.
Joe

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Orange AD15, Matamp 1224, Fender 'JD' Tele, G&L ASAT, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Eggle Kanuga, Avalon D25, Warwick FNA Jazzman, Eden Nemesis / Bergantino EX112S, Eastman MD305 & other stuff...

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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by DiabloS » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:28 pm

jason41224 wrote: he did. he also used an OR50, a couple custom hiwatts, a couple marshalls, and probably some more during the entire performance....so the fact he used ONE AD30 doesn't matter that much, haha. but point taken.
I think my memory was going by this quote that was in another thread, not sure how reliable the source is though tbh.


lamp wrote:
OU818 wrote:I would love to get a run down on which amps and effects were used by Page as I noticed he was using an Orange AD30 Single Channel along with a Petersburg 100 watter and a Marshall (possibly JTM45/100 - I don't know Marshalls well enough, definitely 100 watts). Along with his Pete Cornish built pedal board, thus not knowing what pedals he had, he sounded fantastic. Such a great low down grind on the neck pickup and searing lead on the bridge.
I know the guy who was one of the techs for JPJ at the show and he said that despite the large line up of amps, Page did the whole thing playing through a single AD30. I thinks that's rather cool.
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by Les Paul Lover » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:09 pm

irish_admiral wrote:
Les Paul Lover wrote:Joe, just looked at your sig - you did score an AD15 then?
What do you think of it? I seem to have missed you NAD thread if you did one.

Are you trying to sell your AD30R as well? I saw one gumtree cardiff which I thought might have been yours?
Hey...

Yeah, Chris (Bink) from the forum sold me his as he's moved to the US now, but had left his amp at home, so it worked well for both of us :) . It sounds great, and i've put a Heritage G12H in it... there was no NAD thread from me as it's the same as my 30R minus the reverb, a speaker and a few watts!

I'm moving on the 30R as I don't need the extra volume it provides, and wanted something with a smaller footprint I could carry myself as my back is a bit shot these days. So that ad is probably mine... I put one on Musicradar, one on the SoS classifieds. Can't remember if I did Gumtree.

I'm glad that AD15 worked out for you!! It's a brilliant loud little amp!

How does the speaker change affects it? I do like the V30, but do wonder about these g12h - costly just to try it out though!!
Ant

Orange Gear: RV50 MKI, R30, AD15, AD5, PPC212
Past Orange: Orange AD30TC Combo, Tiny Terror

Guitars: Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded, Vigier Expert Retro 54, Gibson SG 70s Tribute, Aria Pro II RS X80, G&L ASAT Special Tribute

tremolo arm
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Re: I bought a AD30 but I prefer my Dual Terror. Is this nor

Post by tremolo arm » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:33 pm

I got a bit lost in that debate between the Rocker and he AD30.
So what's the consensus in terms of cutting through and sound sitting best in a band mix? Rocker or AD 30? Or other for that matter?

I gotta say - I have no issue cutting through with the Dual Terror. I tried the AD30 at high volume tonight. The sounds I was getting before the band started playing were fantastic, really nice classic crunch. However as soon as all the instruments came in together, my tone was completely lost in th mix. I never had that happen with the Dual Terror.

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