Best speakers for ad30?

[guilleonline]

So my webers are finally going to leave my cab. Well actually I already replaced for The greenback i had in my vox 112 and it sounds a looot better. So i wanted to know what do you guys think would be a good comlement for the greenback. Or what do u guys recommend in your ad30 experiences?

Mainly I want it for crunch and classic rock tones. I think i also preffer definition of the highs instead of a huge bottom sounds by the way.

[Thinline_slim]

I've been running a Weber Blue Dog 12" 30w Alnico along with a G12H30 and that has been my preferred combination for about 4 years. You get a good mid crunch and some sparkly top end from the Alnico. It's also compressed a bit naturally with that combination too.

I would say a G12H30 would be a good match with the green back.

[guilleonline]

Yeah i was inclining towards that one. But thought maybe a wgs version or something like that could also be a valid option.

[a.hun]

I would say a G12H30 would be a good match with the green back.

I'd agree. You'll get more highs and lows mainly to compliment the mid rich G12M-25. (You can always back off the bass control a shade if the lows are a shade too much! )

Don't worry about the couple of decibels difference in efficiency ratings either - the mid heavy G12M does hold its own surprisingly well. Great combination, getting the best from both speakers IMO.


Andy.

[Woodsie]

I would say a G12H30 would be a good match with the green back.

I'd agree. You'll get more highs and lows mainly to compliment the mid rich G12M-25. (You can always back off the bass control a shade if the lows are a shade too much! )

Don't worry about the couple of decibels difference in efficiency ratings either - the mid heavy G12M does hold its own surprisingly well. Great combination, getting the best from both speakers IMO.


Andy.

For the most part, i've kept the stock V30's in my PPC212. I have a G12H30 70th from another amp, I might have to grab a G12M25 and try them out together. I tried it with a V30 and it didn't really seem to do it for me. it took some of the "punch" away. I read a review saying that the G12M was "much louder" than the G12H. No issues there?

[guilleonline]

So should I stay with celestion? Or is there a better version more suitable for crunch and classic rock by another company? Say a wgs (or another one company) version of the g12h? The webers I remove were their g12h 55hz version. The 55hz was too much bass for me. Made me want to stay away from weber.

[Bink]

For the most part, i've kept the stock V30's in my PPC212. I have a G12H30 70th from another amp, I might have to grab a G12M25 and try them out together. I tried it with a V30 and it didn't really seem to do it for me. it took some of the "punch" away. I read a review saying that the G12M was "much louder" than the G12H. No issues there?

I don't know where that came from... The G12H is more efficient than a G12M and so is louder (the G12H versions are all 100 db where as the Heritage version of the G12M is only 96db, the standard version 98db). Having said that, the G12M puts out more mids so the perception can be that it's louder than it actually is.
I used a Heritage G12M to replace a stock V30 that I was running my TT and AD15 through and it enabled me to get probably another two notches of volume on the amp which was beneficical for me (so from 100db to 96db speaker)

[Woodsie]

For the most part, i've kept the stock V30's in my PPC212. I have a G12H30 70th from another amp, I might have to grab a G12M25 and try them out together. I tried it with a V30 and it didn't really seem to do it for me. it took some of the "punch" away. I read a review saying that the G12M was "much louder" than the G12H. No issues there?

I don't know where that came from... The G12H is more efficient than a G12M and so is louder (the G12H versions are all 100 db where as the Heritage version of the G12M is only 96db, the standard version 98db). Having said that, the G12M puts out more mids so the perception can be that it's louder than it actually is.
I used a Heritage G12M to replace a stock V30 that I was running my TT and AD15 through and it enabled me to get probably another two notches of volume on the amp which was beneficical for me (so from 100db to 96db speaker)

sorry, i had that backwards.I'm easily confused.

[Thinline_slim]

So should I stay with celestion? Or is there a better version more suitable for crunch and classic rock by another company? Say a wgs (or another one company) version of the g12h? The webers I remove were their g12h 55hz version. The 55hz was too much bass for me. Made me want to stay away from weber.

I would say either the Celestion or other manufacturer with that G12H30 flavor would be ok. I have an Eminence Wizard, which is their version of the G12H30 but the Wizard has a lot more bass but it's a tight bass. If you were looking to get rid of a little bass you might shy away from the Wizard. I also have and love the Emi Private Jack and use it with the Wizard with my OR50.

I've never tried a WGS speaker but have heard good things. For the price I don't know how you could go wrong. It's about, what, half the price of a Celestion?

[guilleonline]

So should I stay with celestion? Or is there a better version more suitable for crunch and classic rock by another company? Say a wgs (or another one company) version of the g12h? The webers I remove were their g12h 55hz version. The 55hz was too much bass for me. Made me want to stay away from weber.

I would say either the Celestion or other manufacturer with that G12H30 flavor would be ok. I have an Eminence Wizard, which is their version of the G12H30 but the Wizard has a lot more bass but it's a tight bass. If you were looking to get rid of a little bass you might shy away from the Wizard. I also have and love the Emi Private Jack and use it with the Wizard with my OR50.

I've never tried a WGS speaker but have heard good things. For the price I don't know how you could go wrong. It's about, what, half the price of a Celestion?

Yeah that's why I was inclining towards it.

[fiveightandten]

I don't think we have enough info here yet.

IMO, speaker response and sensitivity are as important as the tone. Seeing as all of us these days seem to be having wars with soundmen, how you use the amp will have a huge impact on what speaker is best for you.

On one side of the camp, you may have someone who uses an AD30 to overdrive naturally and wants to do so at the lowest volume possible. Someone like this will also likely want a speaker that feels responsive. Something with a lower sensitivity and lower power rating (around 30W) will be ideal.

On the other side of the camp, you may have someone that uses pedals or pretube saturation for overdrive and isn't pushing the amp anywhere near its limit. If you're not driving the amp, you're not driving the speakers, so sensitivity and response (as a consequence of power rating) will not come into play as much.

Also, i'm not clear on if you have a head, or a combo. Is it a head that you're playing through a Vox 1x12 cab? I'll propose the following questions:
-What kind of volumes are you playing at? Ie, what is the master volume and preamp gain set at normally?
-Where are you getting your overdrive (natural powertube overdrive, pre-amp gain, pedals)?
-How important is dynamic response from the speaker?
-If you had to pick...do you need more volume, or less volume out of your amp?

Based on your answers to those things, i'd go from there to pick a speaker that works with you on all levels. As opposed to just the tone of it. Sensitivity and power rating can make a big difference.

-Nick

[guilleonline]

I don't think we have enough info here yet.

IMO, speaker response and sensitivity are as important as the tone. Seeing as all of us these days seem to be having wars with soundmen, how you use the amp will have a huge impact on what speaker is best for you.

On one side of the camp, you may have someone who uses an AD30 to overdrive naturally and wants to do so at the lowest volume possible. Someone like this will also likely want a speaker that feels responsive. Something with a lower sensitivity and lower power rating (around 30W) will be ideal.

On the other side of the camp, you may have someone that uses pedals or pretube saturation for overdrive and isn't pushing the amp anywhere near its limit. If you're not driving the amp, you're not driving the speakers, so sensitivity and response (as a consequence of power rating) will not come into play as much.

Also, i'm not clear on if you have a head, or a combo. Is it a head that you're playing through a Vox 1x12 cab? I'll propose the following questions:
-What kind of volumes are you playing at? Ie, what is the master volume and preamp gain set at normally?
-Where are you getting your overdrive (natural powertube overdrive, pre-amp gain, pedals)?
-How important is dynamic response from the speaker?
-If you had to pick...do you need more volume, or less volume out of your amp?

Based on your answers to those things, i'd go from there to pick a speaker that works with you on all levels. As opposed to just the tone of it. Sensitivity and power rating can make a big difference.

-Nick

Man I wanted to be more specific but didn't know how to put it onin here. You have made it a bliss to explain!!

So yes I run a Fender for my cleans. My needs for Orange are light crunch (which lately I have been blending with the clean I get from my Fender and the sound is phrnomenal) and overdrive. For both needs I prefer power tube break up, as opposed to the tiny and compress sound you normal get from maxing the gain knob. Learned my lesson there.

So channel one would be between 10 and 12 o'clock, and anyhting between 1 and max on channel two. As far as volume knobs.. As open as it's allowed. I am sometimes forced to have the volume level super low at home and I can tell the huge difference it makes, but I gladly take a thin sound at home to make sure I get the 'real' sound when it really needs to shine.

Speaker wise I'm running an Emperor 2 12, where one of the speakers is a greenback and so I need a companion for it. Seems like the g12h will be the one unless I hear some other recommendation.

As far as having to choose between a lower or higher output spekaer I really have given no thought to that. I am assuming maybe something in the middle?!? I was always under the impression that a speaker thats was driven hard gave a much better crunch than one that didn't. So the 30watt speakers sound right to me.

What ideas do u have? Oh and thanks for helping me clarify this topic

[fiveightandten]

Man I wanted to be more specific but didn't know how to put it onin here. You have made it a bliss to explain!!

So yes I run a Fender for my cleans. My needs for Orange are light crunch (which lately I have been blending with the clean I get from my Fender and the sound is phrnomenal) and overdrive. For both needs I prefer power tube break up, as opposed to the tiny and compress sound you normal get from maxing the gain knob. Learned my lesson there.

So channel one would be between 10 and 12 o'clock, and anyhting between 1 and max on channel two. As far as volume knobs.. As open as it's allowed. I am sometimes forced to have the volume level super low at home and I can tell the huge difference it makes, but I gladly take a thin sound at home to make sure I get the 'real' sound when it really needs to shine.

Speaker wise I'm running an Emperor 2 12, where one of the speakers is a greenback and so I need a companion for it. Seems like the g12h will be the one unless I hear some other recommendation.

As far as having to choose between a lower or higher output spekaer I really have given no thought to that. I am assuming maybe something in the middle?!? I was always under the impression that a speaker thats was driven hard gave a much better crunch than one that didn't. So the 30watt speakers sound right to me.

What ideas do u have? Oh and thanks for helping me clarify this topic

If the Greenback had a little more power handling, I would say leave it in there alone. But I wouldn't trust a single 30W speaker in there with the amp. It will blow eventually.

You're right in thinking that a speaker being driven hard does breakup and provide part of that distorted sound. It's also more touch sensitive being used like that. But it's a fine line to ride between driving a speaker and blowing it. You want your speaker compliment to be able to handle the full power of the amp without any damage. But, if you want the sound and feel of a driven speaker, you don't want to put speakers in there that are overpowered for the amp. Ideally, i'd say to go for 40W or 50W power handing with your speakers if you want that kind of sound.

You already have the right idea going there for what you want, with the somewhat low sensitivity, mid heavy greenback, as it sounds like it's suiting you well. The G12H30 breaks up later and is a bit more of a rigid speaker, much like the V30. Though it will add some definition and clarity to the sound.

Suggestions:

1) If you're looking for a little more of a stiffer response, less blurred and clearer top end, and tighter bass, the G12H30 will put you a step in that direction. Its 100dB sensitivity is high though, so it will in theory be a little more prominent than the greenback in that cab.

2) If you like the sound of the greenback...another one would seem like a wise choice. That will provide safe power handling. And the greenbacks compress and break up pretty early on, so even 2 of them with that amp will likely still feel pretty responsive and still add some speaker coloration to things. At 98dB, you won't really gain any more stage volume by adding the 2nd greenback.

3) For more money, and a completely different approach, two 20W or 25W AlNiCo's (Weber, Scumback, and others have viable options) would provide nice responsiveness, but with smooth highs than the Greenback. Mids are similar but overall the speaker would be looser and more responsive. These are expensive speakers, and you already have the Greenback, which you like. But as tinkerers, I figured i'd mention it.


I'd go for either option 1 or 2, based on your preference. Had you said you use pedals or don't like to crank the amp, I would say something totally different would better suit things. But that's my 2 cents based on how you use the amp and what your preferences are.

Hope that helps!

-Nick


P.S. FWIW, i'm very much a fan of pushing speakers nice and hard. I have two 2x12 cabs..one with 2 Greenbacks, and one with a single V30 (and one open hole...yes, it sounds good. Google "detuned 2x12"). I run these with 50W non master volume heads. The 25W Greenbacks are fine...but I do have some spares sitting on deck in case they ever blow. The single V30 doesn't even break a sweat with a 50W Hiwatt or my OR-80. It's fine.

[guilleonline]

That's funny. When I discovered the greenback my instant thought was two grrenbacks, but nobody encourage that idea saying it would have to much accent on the mids. But yeah i think either another greenback, maybe wgs version of it, or the the g12h is what I think I,ll go for. Actually I saw a greenback and a g12h in a 212 cab and always thought it could be an awesome combi.

[fiveightandten]

That's funny. When I discovered the greenback my instant thought was two grrenbacks, but nobody encourage that idea saying it would have to much accent on the mids. But yeah i think either another greenback, maybe wgs version of it, or the the g12h is what I think I,ll go for. Actually I saw a greenback and a g12h in a 212 cab and always thought it could be an awesome combi.

2 Greenbacks is not too much accent for the mids, guitar is a midrange instrument. That's where we lie in the mix. Some of the best guitar tones ever recorded were played through cabs with greenbacks. I'm not discounting mixing speakers. But there's nothing wrong with running one kind of speaker. Why over-complicate things if you you're happy with the sound of one type of speaker?

There are merits to throwing a different speaker in the cab with the greenback. But if you're happy with the sound, I don't see a need to mess with it. If you want to get technical about it, it does pose problems with phasing. And if the speakers have different sensitivities, they will have differing presences sonically speaking.

These speakers are pretty readily available used, so you're not loosing much money, if any, if you find a used G12H and another used greenback, try them both, and see what you like best. This is what I did. Just sell the one you don't want.

-Nick