What the heck Gibson?

[Boy_Narf]

Hello Everyone,

I have been jonzing hard for a Les Paul Junior lately so I finally decided to order one of the new ones in TV Yellow. It just came in today and I am disappointed to say the least. There were black marks under the finish, the headstock was scratched up and not buffed properly, the neck was un-finished and still covered in glue. On the positive side, it did sound great!

For an imported model I can understand this, however this is supposed to be "MADE IN AMERICA". I went to check out some of the Epiphone models on the wall and they were all flawless. Most of the GIBSON USA models had imperfections.

Long story short I asked him to order another one. Hopefully it will be in better shape.

[oranginator]

Welcome to Gibson's non-custom shop guitars.

I would never own them, personally. They do have some value, but they are a far cry to the reissues made in the other plant.

[Alex Sheeny]

Welcome to Gibson's non-custom shop guitars.

I would never own them, personally. They do have some value, but they are a far cry to the reissues made in the other plant.

word. i'd save a bit more and get a custom shop. you usually can find an used one for the same price of a new USA. the difference is real, this isn't something that only crazy collectors will agree.

[Woodsie]

My 2010 Gold Top had paint chipped around the inserts for the stop bar. It wasn't enough for me to return it, it just played too nice and it didn't take away from its overall sexy-ness.

[jason41224]

i don't think this is so much a reason not to order from Gibson as much as it is a reason to order ANY guitar without playing it first. amps, pedals, cables etc. can be bought from online without much inconsistency, but Guitars are just one of those things where it's really worth it to go to a brick-and-mortar store when you buy. otherwise you're just taking a chance.

[baytamusic]

I have an '87 Junior (pre Custom shop) and it's an outright amazingly made guitar. One piece body, real gloss nitro finish, amazing pickups, perfect intonation, great finish. It does have a TOM bridge but I prefer that anyways. I'd look for one of these 80s models if I were you. It's as nice as the VOS and Historic stuff they sell now. There is just a different feel between the 80s and older Gibson's verses the new ones. You can feel the quality and care that went into making the instrument.

[msmith4432]

I have a 2007 standard and one of the new 2012 standards and both are fantastic

[oranginator]

i don't think this is so much a reason not to order from Gibson as much as it is a reason to order ANY guitar without playing it first. amps, pedals, cables etc. can be bought from online without much inconsistency, but Guitars are just one of those things where it's really worth it to go to a brick-and-mortar store when you buy. otherwise you're just taking a chance.

People will say this all the time, but in reality, this isn't how things have to work.

First, many people live in locations where the nearest Gibson dealer is hundreds of miles away. In today's economy, I'd rather not spend two days of travel, gas, hotel, and then be hit by brick and mortar pricing when I finally get there. I live in an actual city, and we only have one Gibson Dealer here: Guitar Center, and they will rarely carry a Custom Shop Les Paul. Plenty of Lesters to be found scattered throughout the walls.

Many online retailers offer very good return policies. In general, it's pretty easy to find a 14-day return policy. You may have to pay for shipping both ways if you decide to return it, but that's hardly anything compared to the cost/time of TRAVEL.

Not all guitars are "inconsistant," either. For example, I think it's pretty hard to find an American Vintage Fender that is "bad." I think it's pretty hard to find a Custom Shop Gibson that's bad. I also find it pretty hard to find a new Guild that's bad. Therefor, ordering these guitars sight-unseen is not a bad idea at all, at all. I've done it just recently, and I can't be more happy with what shipped to me.

Secondly, Gibson's standard line of guitars are known for being woefully inconsistent. Every Lester Les Paul ("Traditional series," etc) has always had some sort of blemish--Far from "USA" quality IMO. I played on one that didn't have a working tone knob. I played on another in which the E string rattled for some reason. The actual sound of them was all over the place.

Buying guitars online nowadays can actually be a fantastic experience. Just do your research on the return policy, and go with it.

For a cheaper guitar, you can always order two, and then send back the one you don't want (or both).

[Boy_Narf]

I did try out two different Les Paul Jr models in store. I just wanted the TV yellow one

The guy was going to drop the price a bit, but I was pretty angry that the guitar was beat up before I even touched it.

TBH if the next one is in a similar state I think I'm done with Gibson. I'm much happier with Fender these days, and I'm starting to prefer single coils.

I'll update in a week when the new one comes in.

[oranginator]

You don't have to be "done" with Gibson. Just be done with their Lester line of guitars. All guitar companies suffer this with their "commoditized" lineups.

The Fender American Standards to me, are a joke IMO. The Guild GADs are completely unimpressive. Gibson's Lester Lines are no better than Epiphone when they made them in Korea.

But I still love all three of these companies for the higher end stuff that they produce.

[jason41224]

i don't think this is so much a reason not to order from Gibson as much as it is a reason to order ANY guitar without playing it first. amps, pedals, cables etc. can be bought from online without much inconsistency, but Guitars are just one of those things where it's really worth it to go to a brick-and-mortar store when you buy. otherwise you're just taking a chance.

People will say this all the time, but in reality, this isn't how things have to work.

First, many people live in locations where the nearest Gibson dealer is hundreds of miles away. In today's economy, I'd rather not spend two days of travel, gas, hotel, and then be hit by brick and mortar pricing when I finally get there. I live in an actual city, and we only have one Gibson Dealer here: Guitar Center, and they will rarely carry a Custom Shop Les Paul. Plenty of Lesters to be found scattered throughout the walls.

Many online retailers offer very good return policies. In general, it's pretty easy to find a 14-day return policy. You may have to pay for shipping both ways if you decide to return it, but that's hardly anything compared to the cost/time of TRAVEL.

Not all guitars are "inconsistant," either. For example, I think it's pretty hard to find an American Vintage Fender that is "bad." I think it's pretty hard to find a Custom Shop Gibson that's bad. I also find it pretty hard to find a new Guild that's bad. Therefor, ordering these guitars sight-unseen is not a bad idea at all, at all. I've done it just recently, and I can't be more happy with what shipped to me.

Secondly, Gibson's standard line of guitars are known for being woefully inconsistent. Every Lester Les Paul ("Traditional series," etc) has always had some sort of blemish--Far from "USA" quality IMO. I played on one that didn't have a working tone knob. I played on another in which the E string rattled for some reason. The actual sound of them was all over the place.

Buying guitars online nowadays can actually be a fantastic experience. Just do your research on the return policy, and go with it.

For a cheaper guitar, you can always order two, and then send back the one you don't want (or both).

i don't think you quite understood my point. if you have the means to travel to a guitar store (which for the majority of people in the US, is entirely possible), it doesn't make sense to order unseen online. now, internationally i understand that option may not exist. buying online is FINE, but not optimal compared to going into a brick and mortar store.

for the record, i've played plenty of vintage fenders (CBS era anyone?) that didn't quite make it up to par. likewise, i've played a Gibson Custom or two that i was less than impressed with. if anything, the most consistent line i've played is G&L. my point was given Gibson (and Fender to a lesser extent) has a terrible record of consistency, it only makes sense to play multiples of the same model (or similar models) and walk home with the one that speaks to you. my bass player had his heart set on a Ernie Ball Musicman. he walked into a Guitar Center, cash in pocket, sat down and played just about every one they had. without realizing the price, he ended up choosing one from the Sterling series that for some reason played incredibly. when he got to the register he realized he had about $1K to spare and couldn't believe it. there's no argument in the world that could convince me that the chance of finding something like this isn't better than guessing on an online shopping portal.

[oranginator]

[
i don't think you quite understood my point. if you have the means to travel to a guitar store (which for the majority of people in the US, is entirely possible), it doesn't make sense to order unseen online. now, internationally i understand that option may not exist. buying online is FINE, but not optimal compared to going into a brick and mortar store.

for the record, i've played plenty of vintage fenders (CBS era anyone?) that didn't quite make it up to par. likewise, i've played a Gibson Custom or two that i was less than impressed with. if anything, the most consistent line i've played is G&L. my point was given Gibson (and Fender to a lesser extent) has a terrible record of consistency, it only makes sense to play multiples of the same model (or similar models) and walk home with the one that speaks to you. my bass player had his heart set on a Ernie Ball Musicman. he walked into a Guitar Center, cash in pocket, sat down and played just about every one they had. without realizing the price, he ended up choosing one from the Sterling series that for some reason played incredibly. when he got to the register he realized he had about $1K to spare and couldn't believe it. there's no argument in the world that could convince me that the chance of finding something like this isn't better than guessing on an online shopping portal.

I've understood your point just fine. But you're still assuming and expecting too much, especially for seasoned players. MANY people don't have access to shops that carry multiples of the same models within reasonable driving distances. This isn't the pre-2000s where every city had 30 guitar stores. Today, you are really only looking at Guitar Center, and maybe a couple Ma-and-Pa stores (which cater more towards rentals than they do sales due to the competition, therefor most of them don't even have good instruments or the brand that you want). Even though they can "order one in for you," it's really no different than ordering one for yourself (especially for those of us who have luthiers maintaining our guitars )

You were giving an example of someone who I strongly believe didn't really know what they want, to be fair. If he had his heart set on a Ernie Ball Musicman, he would have left the shop empty handed until he found one that he liked. Whenever I walk into a store with the intentions of a model that I really wanted and walk out with something different, I usually find out later that I've made a mistake and I didn't really know what I wanted in the first place. I'll give you this: online portals are not the way to go for people who don't know what they want. If he had seen the Ernie Ball Musicman in an advertisement in a Guitar Magazine or from his favorite band and went to GC looking for one, that isn't truely same as "knowing what he wanted." That's having an "idea" of what he wanted.

And I really doubt that you find all models under any given company inconsistent, regardless of the factory that they came from. My point, is that AVRI, Custom Shop Gibsons, and several other lines/brands produce more consistent guitars than others, and therefor, can be ordered online with greater confidence. Especially with inviting return policies and impressive pricing. For example, I would order a Guild or a Taylor acoustic, but probably not a Martin acoustic without playing on it first. There's so many Martins in brick and mortar stores that I will choose to shop around for one locally. But not all brands are so widespread as a Martin.

If I shopped your way, I would not even have a single Orange in my collection, and I wouldn't even be here on this forum (probably the Marshall forum instead since that's what everyone sells); I've ordered both my TH-30 and my Rocker 30 without even hearing one first. Nor would I have my Guild D-55, which is one of the nicest guitars in my collection. Nor would I have my new AVRI strat. I have NO problem with sending anything back that I've ordered if it didn't reach my high expectations.

Even the guitars that I do have now, are not all guitars that I've purchased while comparing them with the same model in a store. My '58 Reissue Les Paul was just a streak of luck by walking into Guitar Center and seeing it on clearance for $2200 at the highest shelf of the store. I picked up all of the Lester Les Pauls (that were going for a comparable price), and it was clear which one was better. I was playing on it, and one gentlemen walked by and said, "That's the nicest Les Paul I've ever heard."

I bought my '52 AVRI Tele while comparing it to all of the USA Telecasters in the store, but again, not to the same model because they just had one. Luckily enough, they DID have a '52 AVRI on the used wall for $100 less, and guess what? That guitar played/sounded the exact same as the brand new one; I was equally impressed. Only reason that I went with the new one is because of the small price difference. This is a case of me not knowing what I wanted. My intentions going in were, "I want a ultra high end Telecaster that can give me a vintage tone." Shopping in the store was the right move for this case.

All of my other acoustics in my collection were obtained by being at the right place at the right time, and seeing the right price, and of course, being impressed with how it sounded/played.

Anyhow, In the optimal world, I agree with you. There would be plenty of shops around, and they will all carry multiple copies of all the high-end gear that you can dream of. Plenty to pick and decide from.

But we don't live in that world. In-fact, I'd say the vast majority of us don't. I don't even think that world exists anymore except for a few select locations: large, populated cities.

[Norrin Radd]

i don't think this is so much a reason not to order from Gibson as much as it is a reason to order ANY guitar without playing it first. amps, pedals, cables etc. can be bought from online without much inconsistency, but Guitars are just one of those things where it's really worth it to go to a brick-and-mortar store when you buy. otherwise you're just taking a chance.

For the most part I'd agree - unless you are ordering from PRS or Music Man. I suppose there ares one smaller builders who are safe as well. But for big companies - the QC at those two companies is unparalleled. You CAN order one of those without playing first and be assured twill not be disappointed.

[jason41224]

i don't think this is so much a reason not to order from Gibson as much as it is a reason to order ANY guitar without playing it first. amps, pedals, cables etc. can be bought from online without much inconsistency, but Guitars are just one of those things where it's really worth it to go to a brick-and-mortar store when you buy. otherwise you're just taking a chance.

For the most part I'd agree - unless you are ordering from PRS or Music Man. I suppose there ares one smaller builders who are safe as well. But for big companies - the QC at those two companies is unparalleled. You CAN order one of those without playing first and be assured twill not be disappointed.

don't forget G&L. i'd actually buy one from G&L unseen.

PRS, considering it's not an SE.

[baytamusic]

No way I'd buy something like a $4000 Les Paul Custom without playing it first. I live in a big city but if I didn't I'd be going somewhere where I can play a few. That being said I wouldn't buy a new one anyways. I'd buy an older model.