What the heck Gibson?

[a.hun]

Hello Everyone,

I have been jonzing hard for a Les Paul Junior lately so I finally decided to order one of the new ones in TV Yellow. It just came in today and I am disappointed to say the least. There were black marks under the finish, the headstock was scratched up and not buffed properly, the neck was un-finished and still covered in glue. On the positive side, it did sound great!

For an imported model I can understand this, however this is supposed to be "MADE IN AMERICA". I went to check out some of the Epiphone models on the wall and they were all flawless. Most of the GIBSON USA models had imperfections.

Long story short I asked him to order another one. Hopefully it will be in better shape.

I really wish you luck on that. But I have to say welcome to modern Gibson 'quality control'.

I've seen plenty of those Gibson 'imperfections' myself. From the trivial (bell shaped truss rod cover put on squint, careless but only cosmetic) to the terminal (neck put on squint with outer strings not following the edges at all!) I've played a 6 month old Gibson double cut which already had a corkscrewing neck twist that practically guaranteed it would be totally unplayable at two years old. My own Gibson (a 2000 LP Junior Special) came with a desert dry rosewood board which needed a couple of years of oiling with string changes before the wood was in decent condition. You'll see that on many Gibsons (including Custom Shop ones!!!), yet you probably won't on Danelectros. That is bad!

These days due to frankly appalling management decisions and standards Gibson guitars live mainly on the name. People still think that having 'Gibson' on the headstock guarantees quality the way it used to. Sorry, but think again!

The quality of individual guitars from any time in the last 10 - 15 years or so can vary wildly. There are some good ones, a few great ones, but far too many total lemons. (And sorry, that includes Custom Shop ones too - IME they aren't immune at all!)

There are many many forum discussions on Gibson quality on the interweb. Mentioned one of the most shocking / informative near the bottom of this page:
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47227" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not anti Gibson - I like my one a lot. I'm very unimpressed with the people running Gibson though who clearly don't care about making a quality product. These days the standards and QC at Gibson are just shocking. My advice would be that Gibson is one make to definitely try hands on before buying. There are decent ones, but you have to find them. QC at most other companies in recent years (incuding Fender IMO) has been on a totally different planet - exactly how it should be!!!

Like I say good luck, but now you know not to expect too much. The main thing to check for on any Gibbo LP is the guitar's resonance and especially the solidity of the neck joint*. Then you just have to decide if you can live with the cosmetics or not.

(*Simple method of checking that is mentioned in POST #31 of that TGP thread)


Andy.

[indianDYsummer]

Let's just all agree that when possible, it's advantageous to play a guitar prior to buying it. Everyone has their own individual wallet size and patience to deal with defects and returns.

In response to the suggestion that the OP should just buy a Gibson Custom Shop LP Junior, I understand the sentiment, but that guitar is different than a Junior Special in ways that may not be appealing. The wraparound bridge and lack of a neck pickup come to mind. That, and the limited finish options are the reasons I bought my regular Junior Special. I did buy it sight unseen though. It sounds better than it plays.

[ZeroCool]

I must be really lucky. I've had about 7 or 8 Gibson's over the past few years (2 Studios and the rest either Standards or Customs) and they have all been great. I still have 4 of them and they all play and sound excellent. I had a similar experience with Fender's when I was playing them.

The only bad or poorly finished guitars I have had in the past were either Epihones or the cheaper Fender lines. Bad frets, weird necks and noisy electronics were most common.

I've also had quite a few PRS CE, CU series, Gretsch's and Shecters that were no better or worse for fit and finish than the Gibsons (although the PRS Custom 22 I had was practically flawless).

[Alex Sheeny]

I'd buy a G&L unseen too.

I tried lots of Lester Gibson USA guitars when I was in NYC, they just disappointed me so hard that it took some days to figure it out and finally convince myself that I should look further. Gibson Memphis is kind of a hybrid custom shop, but IMHO it's light years away from the lester usa line. but again, that is JUST my opinion. Lots of folks love their USA Traditionals/Standards. I just didn't feel a big difference between them and my 98' Epi LP Standard.

[oranginator]

I think it's pretty much fact that the custom shop Gibson is a better guitar than the Lester lineup. No need to excuse yourself by "opinions" on that one.

[a.hun]

I must be really lucky. I've had about 7 or 8 Gibson's over the past few years (2 Studios and the rest either Standards or Customs) and they have all been great. I still have 4 of them and they all play and sound excellent. I had a similar experience with Fender's when I was playing them.

The only bad or poorly finished guitars I have had in the past were either Epihones or the cheaper Fender lines. Bad frets, weird necks and noisy electronics were most common.

I've also had quite a few PRS CE, CU series, Gretsch's and Shecters that were no better or worse for fit and finish than the Gibsons (although the PRS Custom 22 I had was practically flawless).

I believe you, but I also think you are lucky. Clearly some dealers / distributors / regions have either more 'clout' or 'favour' than others when it comes to getting the good 'uns. I know that Gibson (among others!) have used some pretty unfriendly tactics over the years, often forcing their dealers to take more stock than they really wanted / needed to carry. Some dealers clearly get a better deal than others.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... ?t=1112911" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have to say that all the dealers I've visited in various parts of Europe (mainly the UK and Holland) have had some real dogs of guitars among the goodies. Others in different places have had very different experiences though. (See my reply to esch HERE.)

I accept that happens, and am happy you've had the chance to play and own so many good ones. Some of us aren't quite so lucky and really do get to see some shockers.


Andy.

[ZeroCool]

I will say this though, none of my Gibsons came from the big box stores. They all came from smaller "mom and pop" dealers like Austin Vintage and such. I wouldn't be surprised if they hand selected the "good" ones and sent the others back.

[msmith4432]

I must be really lucky. I've had about 7 or 8 Gibson's over the past few years (2 Studios and the rest either Standards or Customs) and they have all been great. I still have 4 of them and they all play and sound excellent. I had a similar experience with Fender's when I was playing them.

The only bad or poorly finished guitars I have had in the past were either Epihones or the cheaper Fender lines. Bad frets, weird necks and noisy electronics were most common.

I've also had quite a few PRS CE, CU series, Gretsch's and Shecters that were no better or worse for fit and finish than the Gibsons (although the PRS Custom 22 I had was practically flawless).

That's because the vast majority of Gibson guitars are great instruments. There can be Internet gossip all you want if it were as bad as some on here act like it is then Gibson would not still be selling tons of guitars at $1500-$4000 a piece, sorry people just are not going to pay for a name if the quality has really been that shotty for 10-15 years

[ZeroCool]

That's because the vast majority of Gibson guitars are great instruments. There can be Internet gossip all you want if it were as bad as some on here act like it is then Gibson would not still be selling tons of guitars at $1500-$400 a piece, sorry people just are not going to pay for a name if the quality has really been that shotty for 10-15 years

I think this is true too. I'm sure there are *some* bad Gibsons but I really don't think they are as terrible as you read in the forums.

[a.hun]

There can be Internet gossip all you want if it were as bad as some on here act like it is then Gibson would not still be selling tons of guitars at $1500-$400 a piece, sorry people just are not going to pay for a name if the quality has really been that shotty for 10-15 years

Well the ones I've described I've had in my own hands. Corkscrewed neck, neck not straight to the body. As far as I'm concerned these weren't guitars I read about in the forums. Also having done that neck joint 'tap test' on a fair few Gibsons, well the percentages there weren't good for a 'top quality' maker, not good at all...

Actually some people do buy the bad ones too. There are always people who will trust the name - that is exactly what the Gibson management are relying on. And then if / when they discover they have bought lemons they try to sell them on. So with s/h as well as new Gibsons it is 'buyer beware'!

Nobody is forcing you to believe anything here. But don't you find it strange that there are SO MANY different mentions of Gibson quality control problems on the internet. I know why, even if you haven't had the displeasure of finding out for yourself.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=944443" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=977389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good advice on LPs IMO:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... stcount=13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again I repeat I am NOT anti Gibson. I am however very much against what the nutters currently ruining the company have done to a once truly great guitar maker. I find it truly shocking and very sad. I hope to see better days again for Gibson, but indeed right now it isn't a company whose product I'd buy without having tried it hands on. I'd tend not to do that anyway, but some brands are much more consistent than others. Gibson in my experience is near the bottom of the pile for consistency. But guess what - I can't speak for all those others on the internet, only for myself!


Andy.

[Alex Sheeny]

the market is easy for them. they've got the name. i mean, everyone who's not aware or haven't researched enough will not recognize the flaws or understand why they're "good" or "bad". of course it's a matter of taste, but if you haven't refined your taste enough maybe years later you'll experience more things and figure out that you were mislead by the brand on the neck.

Gibson isn't a shitty brand, what I find out shitty, for example, is paying $2.300,00 for a Les Paul Traditional Plus. I mean, there will be people who won't find anything wrong about them. I was totally disappointed when I tried them. I tried them thinking they were the real deal, with no forum/discussion vices. That's what I'm talking about, I'm not trying to mislead anyone, but keep the eyes open when investing such amount of money on an instrument. And try not be lead by the GAS. All this companies have been sitting there for years, they're doing something they know, selling products. Wether they're great or not, not everyone will have the same opinion, but as said before, the custom shop is much better for a fact.

[msmith4432]

There can be Internet gossip all you want if it were as bad as some on here act like it is then Gibson would not still be selling tons of guitars at $1500-$400 a piece, sorry people just are not going to pay for a name if the quality has really been that shotty for 10-15 years

Well the ones I've described I've had in my own hands. Corkscrewed neck, neck not straight to the body. As far as I'm concerned these weren't guitars I read about in the forums. Also having done that neck joint 'tap test' on a fair few Gibsons, well the percentages there weren't good for a 'top quality' maker, not good at all...

Actually some people do buy the bad ones too. There are always people who will trust the name - that is exactly what the Gibson management are relying on. And then if / when they discover they have bought lemons they try to sell them on. So with s/h as well as new Gibsons it is 'buyer beware'!

I am not trying to believe anything, I am not defending Gibson. I'm sure there are problem guitars but to acts like the company is a disaster and makes poor guitars is ridiculous. I have owned 5 in the last 10 years and still own 2, all of them were very good guitars. I have one that is very special and have yet to find another that has to guts that it has, but it's always been that way somewhat. Get 100 Gison LPs and 80 are going to play really good, a few will be underwhelming and a few will be special.

Nobody is forcing you to believe anything here. But don't you find it strange that there are SO MANY different mentions of Gibson quality control problems on the internet. I know why, even if you haven't had the displeasure of finding out for yourself.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=944443" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=977389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good advice on LPs IMO:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpo ... stcount=13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again I repeat I am NOT anti Gibson. I am however very much against what the nutters currently ruining the company have done to a once truly great guitar maker. I find it truly shocking and very sad. I hope to see better days again for Gibson, but indeed right now it isn't a company whose product I'd buy without having tried it hands on. I'd tend not to do that anyway, but some brands are much more consistent than others. Gibson in my experience is near the bottom of the pile for consistency. But guess what - I can't speak for all those others on the internet, only for myself!


Andy.

[msmith4432]

Well that's your experience. I have had 5 in the last 10 years. I still have 2. Of the ones I have had, all have been good and one which I still have has that something a little extra. Line up 100 Gibsons and 85 of them will be real good guitars a few will be a little underwhelming and a few will have that little something special.

[nlimbaugh]

It's almost worth flying to NYC where there are hundreds of Gibson's on the same block and fly home the same day with a guitar. One round trip ticket is better than getting skunked. With Ebay I spent the same amount of money making my LP Special 'right' as I paid for it.

[Tango]

I loves my Gibson. It's THE best guitar I've ever owned, though some of you may already know this