50's wiring - wimpy sound issue - help?

[Action-Hank]

Hey guys,

I recently picked up an Epiphone Korina Firebird super cheap as a bit of a project guitar.

I had a few parts kicking around, so thought I'd try making up a 50's style wiring harness using CTS custom 'Vintage Taper' split-shaft 500k pots and 0.022uF K40Y-9 NOS capacitors - the same capacitor Luxe uses in their reproduction Bumblebees apparently - coupled with a Gibson 500T and 498R.

I was expecting to end up with a pretty snarling, aggressive sounding guitar - but instead things are sounding decidedly weedy. Like your guitar volume isn't right up and you need half as much travel again in the pots.

One issue I had making the harness was that the pot for my Bridge Vol didn't work, so I used another that wasn't part of the set. I also wondered whether the guitar was just too physically light to sound heavy (if you catch my drift?).

Anyway, just wondering if any of you guys who are better experienced in these matters might be able to shed some light on the issue?
It's a really cool looking axe, so I'd love to get it gig-able!

Thanks all!

[handyandy]

Do your pickups have 4 wires? Maybe your out of phase or on split coils.

[hellagnar Brosevelt]

I could be wrong but 500k seems high for those pickups. That could be making the whole thing sound brittle.

[Alex Sheeny]

i think 500k could be even a 10% 550k pot. that's not the issue.

which diagram you're using to wire your harness?

[Alex Sheeny]

oh, and there's another issues too, you had this pot you've got measured? if not, you should, there is a count that should be done with every potentiometer which defines which is best for the Bridge Volume/ Bridge Tone / Neck Volume / Neck Tone.

Another thing that you should take into consideration is that you might burned your potentiometer heating with the solder iron.

[Action-Hank]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm suspecting the miscellaneous pot might be the culprit. I could probably do with a better soldering iron. Its fine for lighter work, but seems to struggle soldering connections to the pots. You may well be right about burning/over heating the pot.

I shall get another and try again!

[BrianFantana]

It may be the 50s wiring itself. I did it to my Les Paul and hated it. Took the cujones away. You could try to put a .047 cap in place of the .022s. You'll get bassier quicker on your tone knobs.

If you want the big sound of your guitar back, switch back to the modern wiring.

[Alex Sheeny]

It may be the 50s wiring itself. I did it to my Les Paul and hated it. Took the cujones away. You could try to put a .047 cap in place of the .022s. You'll get bassier quicker on your tone knobs.

If you want the big sound of your guitar back, switch back to the modern wiring.

well, you may not like 50's wiring, but what he described is impossible to be a 50's wiring. it just adds more highs and brightens to your tone, it doesn't make it feel weak as he said.

[OrangePaul]

I've been reading up on this 50's wiring and from what I can see the only difference is the point where the tone pot cap joins the respective volume pot.

On a modern Gibson its on the input/pickup side of the volume.
On the 50's wiring it should be connected to the volume output/pickup selector side.

On full volume these two points are virtually the same anyway... you should only really notice a difference at all when you start to roll back the volume.


The independant volume mod which stops the 'kill switch' effect is a different mod according to what I've read on the net anyway

[Action-Hank]

Hmm,
Well the stock pickups sounded guff anyway and the guitar had some faulty wiring, so there's not much to compare to there.


I wanted to give the 50's wiring a crack because my other humbucking guitars (SG, Explorer) tend to muddy up quite a bit when I roll off on the vol.
Sometimes in live, band situations I don't want to go clean, I just want to clean up a bit, but still keep clarity. I've also tried the other volume pot mod (treble bleed/resistor/cap/etc) on my H/S/S strat, but found it shrill. Thought the 50's mod might make more sense.

[Alex Sheeny]

It does make a hell of a difference to my ears.

What you should expect wiring 50's, upgrading pots and caps, this come from the jonesy website ( a +30 years guitar tech):


What can you expect from your New Wiring Upgrades?

Depending on what you start with and what you upgrade to you may notice the following changes after installing new pots, caps and wiring....

1. Less Mud and more Overall Clarity
2. Your Volume and Tone controls will work and roll-off like they should
3. 50's wiring is very user friendly with tube amps and retains the highs
4. Smoother overall Tone with less noise and hum
5. You will get the Best Tone from your pickups with quality wiring
6. Quieter trouble free switching, no cutting out or loss of output
7. No more crackling or humm from your output jack


If you're feeling your tone muddy and want to change that, it will make the difference for you. If you're comfortable with your tone don't ever bother saying that 50's wiring sucks, it's just a matter of opinion. Specially with darker amps like Oranges I feel that it's the best way to go.