Rolling off the lows

[hellagnar Brosevelt]

I am surprised that know one has said to try a compressor yet. A nice stomp box comp can tighten up the mud and help with the eq as well. You need to learn to really use it as it has its place. open chording with a comp can sound abit 80s to my ears but if I am chugging or playing leads the compressor is on. I like the Super Signa Comp but I am sure any pedal with an attack and eq on it would work.

[thing]

I was having similar problems (had my TH30 for 6 months now), I just couldn't get there tone wise with my LP. I persisted and am now pretty happy - introduced an EQ pedal which helped + lifted my cab which helped even more.

[Gorgar]

Beano Boost or an old Distortion+.

[Dark Helmet]

the other problem (now moot w/ his changed setup) not noted above is that you were driving a 400w cab with a 30w amp. that's a bit of a mis-match, IMO.

with a 30w head, I'd want a 120w cab or something like that. the 400w job means each 100w speaker is only getting, maybe 10w max on overrun on the dirty channel. gonna have a hard time making that sound articulate no matter what when you can barely overcome the inertia of the mechanism itself.

personally, I don't think I'd run a 50w head with a 400w cab... and I use a 180w* total power cab for my 50w head... and I think it's just about perfect. a 240 would be as far as I would go on a 50w head, personally.





*60+60+30+30=180w total power handling for the speakers, but limited to 120w rating based on how the load is distributed. I know most of you guys know this... but to avoid confusion...

[a.hun]

the other problem (now moot w/ his changed setup) not noted above is that you were driving a 400w cab with a 30w amp. that's a bit of a mis-match, IMO.

with a 30w head, I'd want a 120w cab or something like that. the 400w job means each 100w speaker is only getting, maybe 10w max on overrun on the dirty channel. gonna have a hard time making that sound articulate no matter what when you can barely overcome the inertia of the mechanism itself.

personally, I don't think I'd run a 50w head with a 400w cab... and I use a 180w* total power cab for my 50w head... and I think it's just about perfect. a 240 would be as far as I would go on a 50w head, personally.

Sorry to disagree, but I honestly see that as a total non issue. As long as the cab has enough power handling to take the amp (clearly not a problem there!) the only other technical issues are impedance and sensitivity (= efficiency). If the impedance is correct for the amps output then that just leaves sensitivity.

Higher (power) rated speakers aren't inherently low sensitivity. A cab with four 100W 99dB rated speakers will be as loud as one with four 25W 99dB speakers would be when fed the same signal from the same amp. It'll just be able to go louder as it can safely handle more power so you can use a bigger amp.

With one exception - deliberately wanting to drive speakers near their limits for cone breakup - the whole 'underpowering speakers' with valve amps thing is a myth.

IMO anyway.


Andy.

[Dark Helmet]

that sensitivity rating is at ONE set frequency though... who knows how well that plays accross the spectrum.

I may still be wrong... but everything I've ever learned in a Physics class tells me there is something to it... and I got REALLY good grades in physics.

you've got to accelerate, decelerate, and re-accelerate that mass over and over and over.... the greater the mass, the more energy it takes to accomplish that. with less power available, and more mass (a reasonable assumption with a speaker with greater power handling... but I don't have any data to prove this point), the accel/decel/accel rates are going to be slower, and hence suffer a loss of clarity.

this is how my brain sees it. maybe I'm missing something...

[a.hun]

that sensitivity rating is at ONE set frequency though... who knows how well that plays accross the spectrum.

I may still be wrong... but everything I've ever learned in a Physics class tells me there is something to it... and I got REALLY good grades in physics.

you've got to accelerate, decelerate, and re-accelerate that mass over and over and over.... the greater the mass, the more energy it takes to accomplish that. with less power available, and more mass (a reasonable assumption with a speaker with greater power handling... but I don't have any data to prove this point), the accel/decel/accel rates are going to be slower, and hence suffer a loss of clarity.

this is how my brain sees it. maybe I'm missing something...

Yeah, but that accelerating, decelerating, re-accelerating of the moving mass is all covered by the speakers sensitivity!

Sure the sensitivity is usually measured at one frequency (often 1kHz). But it is also always measured at 1 watt input power. (db/W/m ratings mean dB @ 1W measured @ 1 meter.) Sure different speakers will sound different tonally but that is a toally different thing.

I'd agree that because of how they are measured the sensitivity ratings aren't always a particularly accurate guide to how loud a speaker will sound with any particular amp. That has a lot to do with not only the speaker's frequency balance, but the amp's too. Also, like power ratings they aren't standardised between different manufacturers, so the ratings from Eminence and from Celestion mean slightly different things. (Eminence claim to measure average sensitivity broadband, not specifically at 1kHz.)

But sensitivity ratings are still very useful as a general indication of overall efficiency (so loudness) of a speaker. And since the human ear is most sensitive to frequencies around 1kHz those sensitivity ratings are still fairly useful, certainly so for comparing different models from the same manufacturer.

The power rating of a speaker has to do with the heat the voice coil can dissipate, or the driver's mechanical limits. It tells you NOTHING about its sensitivity though - that is a totally separate thing. Unless you are deliberately wanting the compression / distortion effects of cone breakup, and as long as you like their tone, using high power handling rated speakers is never a problem real world. Run a half watt Z-vex Nano Amp through an Orange 4x12 if you want - it'll work fine!


Andy.

[David Verb]

Was just wondering what clever ways people have to reduce the low end a little bit?

Simple low cost option: Raise the cab a little off the floor. That'll tighten up the bass beautifully.

Andy.

Amen brother!

Why do you have to spend money for? People forget the sound is also about the space that it lives in.

[Jondog]

I fixed my TH30 with a Rockerverb 50 MKll