get a bigger sound

[savage8190]

My bandmates Strat w/humbucker through his Rocker 30 sounds HUUGE through any 412. Dark and heavy, but certainly anything but thin.

Just through the 1x12 it sounds really thin and weak though.

It really is a night and day difference.

Try a 412.

So true. I had a RV head with 2 1x12's, and I had the 2x12 combo...I was never happy with either of them. Now I have the head and a 4x12 and it sounds massive. You gotta try it with a 4x12 and get those tubes changed.

[OrangePaul]

It's possible him having 100watts into a 4x12 and you 50 into a 2x12 is the difference.
I'd get the amp checked though. Another option would be more efficient speakers in your 2x12.

[whiteyanderson]

It's funny, after just getting back from rehearsals in Texas, my Les Paul and RV50 and PPC412 just hammered all the other amps...again. Dual Blackstar Series One 200 1/2 stacks and the like. I've played with dudes who had triple-recs in the past who have had to pick their jaws off the floor due to the sheer girth of the RV and the PPC412, made their Mesa's sound like Bugeras .

That said, a closed back cab is one ticket. And one other thing to keep in mind, is that a lot of that chunky, fat power is in your hands. If you can't afford a PPC412, then try to source a used PPC212. Coupled with the open back 212, it'll add a lot of beef.

[baytamusic]

My bandmates Strat w/humbucker through his Rocker 30 sounds HUUGE through any 412. Dark and heavy, but certainly anything but thin.

Just through the 1x12 it sounds really thin and weak though.

It really is a night and day difference.

Try a 412.

So true. I had a RV head with 2 1x12's, and I had the 2x12 combo...I was never happy with either of them. Now I have the head and a 4x12 and it sounds massive. You gotta try it with a 4x12 and get those tubes changed.

More efficient than a V30? Yikes!

[savage8190]

More efficient than a V30? Yikes!

Wha?

[OrangePaul]

More efficient than a V30? Yikes!

Wha?

Yeah they do exist!

[baytamusic]

More efficient than a V30? Yikes!

Wha?

Don't mind me. My brain is fried.

[bavaro]

i had that open back cab. it sounded pretty weak to my ears, which is partly why i put it in a live-in road case that helped "close" it up. the sound noticeably changed depending on in or out of the case, being much fuller in the case. i got a 412 only because i got a good deal, but i'd definitely go with a nice closed back 212 if i had the cash.

bear in mind that your tone will also sound vastly different in a band setting. it might sound awesome when you practice alone, but throw in another guitar, and drums, and your tone could possibly be weak because you need to tweak for the band situation. you should be able to coax a monster sound out of that amp.

[Mesut]

wow, thanks for all the great suggestions guys
I'll keep you informed, but just one last thing:
let's say I would go double 212 (one open, the other closed), could the new jim root cab be a helpful addition, or should I stick to the regular orange 212 closed back. And what do you think about the 410 cab?
Thanks a lot!

[bavaro]

wow, thanks for all the great suggestions guys
I'll keep you informed, but just one last thing:
let's say I would go double 212 (one open, the other closed), could the new jim root cab be a helpful addition, or should I stick to the regular orange 212 closed back. And what do you think about the 410 cab?
Thanks a lot!

that jim root is pretty cool. plus, visually it would look a lot nicer stacked with your open back. the normal 212 is wider, so you'd have a weird pyramid thing going on if you went with the normal 212. the open/closed combination might help fill sound a bit more in a live setting, though i know some people debate this. i hated the 410 when i tried it, i felt like it took the little bit unsavory fizz that the TH30 has in its gain character, and made it worse. i would stick with 12" speakers, v30's or greenbacks.

[ESBlonde]

I'm a little concerned that you might be falling for the loudness wars thing. Also sounding like another guitarist in the same band is bad, Sound different and play different parts in different parts of the neck. The overall band sound is more important than any individual. If you fellow guitarist can only get his sound cranking a 100w valve head, where does he expect to go gigs?

Anyway, techie time for your orange I think.

[David Verb]

I'm gonna go ahead and say it's the tubes, but you seem to be hoping it's something else. It's probably not, you have great humbuckers, a great cabinet (pop it up on its side and you'll hear it better maybe), and a super loud amp. You just need to give the amp some TLC and it'll rock so hard the other guy with cry himself to sleep every night thinking about how much he regrets buying a valveking.

Amen!!!

[Bensen]

Assuming your Amp is working properly I'd beg or borrow a tele and try to cut through the mix using different frequencies rather than raw power

+1
My first thought was "get a tele"

[the gray area]

Assuming your Amp is working properly I'd beg or borrow a tele and try to cut through the mix using different frequencies rather than raw power

+1
My first thought was "get a tele"

+2.
2 guitars in our band, originally we both used LPs with humbuckers & the sound got swampy & heavy, there was little deffinition between the two guitars. I swapped for a tele, or sometimes a gretsch with dynas. I now cut through the mix much better & the overall live sound is lighter & more dynamic.

[apocalypsedude]

I had a similar problem a year ago with my Rocker 30/ closed back 2X12 setup. I was competing with a rhythm player that had a 100 watt Plexi re-issue and a 4X12. My setup was really noisy when I got the volume anywhere past 12 o'clock. I initially had the cab sitting on the floor, but got better results with it on top of a sturdy metal bar stool. I was cutting through more but it still didn't sound good enough to me. I knew the Rocker had more potential.

I ended up getting new power tubes, matched EH EL34s, and upgrading to a Framus 4X12. My noise problem went away after the new tube swap, and my sound was much fuller and thicker thanks to the 4X12. I didn't have as much volume on tap as the Plexi, BUT with the Rocker 30 Master volume at noon, it was plenty loud overtop of a loud drummer, I'm talking ear plugs loud here.

Last night at practice, we tried out a new guitarist, who was running a 100watt JCM 900 through a Marshall cab with GT-75s, I was again proud of my setup, fuller, fatter,juicier, and waaaaay thicker than the JCM, with a nice British bark to it. This is with a Les Paul Classic with a stock 500T ( hottest pickup Gibson makes) going straight into the Orange.

As for heavier strings, though I'm back to using .09s on my Les Paul ( still a beefy sounding setup with the Orange), I was once in a punk rock band with another painfully loud rhythm guitarist, and was having trouble cutting through, even though we both had 100 watt half stacks. I ended up going to heavier strings on an SG, either 11s or 12s or maybe it was a light top/heavy bottom setup, cant remember, anyway, I do recall being able to here myself better, but your hand is gonna get a helluva a workout if your not used to them. Like I said I prefer using lighter strings now, like Jimmy Page and Billy Gibbons do and let the amp do the work. Would you say those guys have thin, weak tones? I wouldn't. Tony Iommi also uses light gauge strings, he sounds pretty good to me.

I don't think you should have to go to active pickups, the JB should be hot enough. The switch to a Tele might be good for the sound though, since the other guy is using a LP, might help you to cover different frequencies than him, give your band a better "spread" of sound.

I would re-tube the amp first as that is relatively cheap, then look into adding another closed back 2X12 or just upgrade to a 4X12. Stay away from those Celestion GT-75s and you will be alright. Those speakers are thin and lifeless.