Just ordered a Retro 50!!!!

[pattyzero]

My Tiny Terror HW (much as I love it!!) just hasn;t got the power for some of the gigs I'm doing, so after much thought decided to push the boat out and ordered a new amp.

I've kinda been spoilt now I have the TT15HW, so thought I'd spoil myself again and go for the Retro 50.

Bit of a leap of faith seeing as I've not tried one, but if I like it 1/2 as much as the tiny terror I'll be pleased!!

I can't see me being disapointed really!!! Should be here in a couple of months.

[Randy Bass]

Hopefully it's well worth the wait. At least you have something good to play in the meanwhile. I will be curious to hear how similar the Retro 50 is to the TTHW.

[TESLA_EL34]

Not really similar at all... i think the retro is more based on the OR's tone and feel as far as i know

[the_blue_bomber]

They're very different.

[OrangePaul]

If its anything like the old ORs you should love it in a live situation

It may not shine at home practice levels like the TT though I shouldn't think.

[indianDYsummer]

If its anything like the old ORs you should love it in a live situation

It may not shine at home practice levels like the TT though I shouldn't think.

I found that I actually prefer the tone of the Retro 50 at home practice levels versus gig/band levels. The tone controls are more flexible, and the bass is more defined. All high volumes it's like a midrange bullet to the face. It sounds good, but I have to crank the bass and treble, and have to keep the mids at noon. It might be my guitar though (modded jazzmaster).

[OrangePaul]

If its anything like the old ORs you should love it in a live situation

It may not shine at home practice levels like the TT though I shouldn't think.

I found that I actually prefer the tone of the Retro 50 at home practice levels versus gig/band levels. The tone controls are more flexible, and the bass is more defined. All high volumes it's like a midrange bullet to the face. It sounds good, but I have to crank the bass and treble, and have to keep the mids at noon. It might be my guitar though (modded jazzmaster).

Do you mean high volumes at home/small rehearsal space or high volume in a medium to reasonable sized venue??

I think ultimately though the retro would need a pedal to get it sounding as high gain (or more modern type gain) as what a TT does...if it's similar to an OR that is.

[indianDYsummer]

Oh, by high volume I meant in a gigging/full band environment. Probably louder than what most sound guys will let you turn it to. I turn it up pretty loud, even for having earplugs in. For some reason you lose a lot of apparent bass when you turn it up. But it might be the tubes I have in mine, or my guitar. Or the fact that bass/treble from a guitar can get muffled out of the mix in a band environment. I think I had the treble on my Retro at 0 and the bass at 10 last time I used it in a band context. I do generally use earplugs too, which definitely impacts the tone I'm hearing.

The retro is definitely a low to mid gain amp. I haven't played many tiny terrors, but the retro doesn't even come close to the gain of the rocker 30. More or less, the max gain on the retro is about equal to noon or 1 o'clock on the rocker 30. I also would imagine the tiny terror has more gain available, just like you said, but a bit less than the R30.

[ironlung40]

Oh, by high volume I meant in a gigging/full band environment. Probably louder than what most sound guys will let you turn it to. I turn it up pretty loud, even for having earplugs in. For some reason you lose a lot of apparent bass when you turn it up. But it might be the tubes I have in mine, or my guitar. Or the fact that bass/treble from a guitar can get muffled out of the mix in a band environment. I think I had the treble on my Retro at 0 and the bass at 10 last time I used it in a band context. I do generally use earplugs too, which definitely impacts the tone I'm hearing.

The retro is definitely a low to mid gain amp. I haven't played many tiny terrors, but the retro doesn't even come close to the gain of the rocker 30. More or less, the max gain on the retro is about equal to noon or 1 o'clock on the rocker 30. I also would imagine the tiny terror has more gain available, just like you said, but a bit less than the R30.

don't know about the bass issues, as I've not had mine in a live mix, but the gain level comments are pretty spot on. However, the retro does tend to take boost pedals better than a rocker 30, so you can boost it for more if you wish........and it does sound pretty similar to the old OR's, not exactly, but it is in the same ballpark

[indianDYsummer]

After thinking about it a bit, I'm going to blame the extra midrange emphasis on the earplugs. Next time I go to band practice I'll bring the retro back and give it another whirl. We rearranged the room so that I can hear myself way better, too. I do like the Rocker better though. I've brought the Retro 3 times and haven't really meshed with it that well.

[a.hun]

Hi pattyzero. Exciting times. Very nice amps and the build on these things is basically second to none.

I found that I actually prefer the tone of the Retro 50 at home practice levels versus gig/band levels. The tone controls are more flexible, and the bass is more defined. All high volumes it's like a midrange bullet to the face. It sounds good, but I have to crank the bass and treble, and have to keep the mids at noon. It might be my guitar though (modded jazzmaster).

...After thinking about it a bit, I'm going to blame the extra midrange emphasis on the earplugs. Next time I go to band practice I'll bring the retro back and give it another whirl. We rearranged the room so that I can hear myself way better, too. I do like the Rocker better though. I've brought the Retro 3 times and haven't really meshed with it that well.

Slightly odd one that Andy. With most amps I usually find myself cutting the bass as the volume goes up!

May well also be the room / cab / placement. If it is anything at all like the old ORs (which was the whole idea according to Orange at the time) then lack of bass really shouldn't be an issue.

I haven't played a Retro myself but I believe the tone controls will cut the signal gain completely when all zeroed. With that type of tone stack you are often best to just bring them up gradually and balance them with the gain and master controls to find the right sounds at different volume (/ gain!) levels. That apart though I believe that the effect of the tone controls is relatively subtle with that amp. Better for fine tuning the amps basic sound I mean than for getting wildly different sounds as you can for example with a Hiwatts very powerful and versatile tone stack.

Remember upping the bass control isn't the only way to get more bass. Reducing the treble (and adjusting the volume / gain / mids as needed) should also get you there. Probably just needs a rather different approach from most other amp's tone controls...

One important thing that is handy to know pattyzero. The footswitchable 'boost' isn't really a boost at all - it simply takes the tone stack completely out of circuit. This will give you the amps direct core sound without the gain losses you'll get with any passive tone stack. If you have the tone controls set relatively low you can expect a pretty dramatic hike in volume when taking them out of circuit. So take care there - you have been warned!

I already have a vintage Orange so it isn't an issue for me, but personally if after one of the Custom Shop 50 watters I'd have probably gone for the AD50 Custom myself. It apparently has a bit more gain / aggression, and I think the bass / treble / presence controls would actually get you more different sound colours than the B/M/T controls on the Retro. Also when the AD50's preamp tone stack is footswitched out the presence (a power amp section high frequency tone control) will still work. I think most people look at the AD50s tone controls and think they will be less versatile, while the truth is probably exactly the opposite.
Doesn't matter of course if the core sounds are what you are after, and I believe in terms of gain and sounds it should be a pretty good take on the old Oranges, but at much more managable volume levels. Really hope you'll like it whan it comes!


Andy.

[pattyzero]

Hi pattyzero. Exciting times. Very nice amps and the build on these things is basically second to none.


One important thing that is handy to know pattyzero. The footswitchable 'boost' isn't really a boost at all - it simply takes the tone stack completely out of circuit. This will give you the amps direct core sound without the gain losses you'll get with any passive tone stack. If you have the tone controls set relatively low you can expect a pretty dramatic hike in volume when taking them out of circuit. So take care there - you have been warned!

I already have a vintage Orange so it isn't an issue for me, but personally if after one of the Custom Shop 50 watters I'd have probably gone for the AD50 Custom myself. It apparently has a bit more gain / aggression, and I think the bass / treble / presence controls would actually get you more different sound colours than the B/M/T controls on the Retro. Also when the AD50's preamp tone stack is footswitched out the presence (a power amp section high frequency tone control) will still work. I think most people look at the AD50s tone controls and think they will be less versatile, while the truth is probably exactly the opposite.
Doesn't matter of course if the core sounds are what you are after, and I believe in terms of gain and sounds it should be a pretty good take on the old Oranges, but at much more managable volume levels. Really hope you'll like it whan it comes!


Andy.

Sounds like that'll suit me, I actually prefer to work with a core sound and an eq that's subtle rather than a powerful eq, I like to keep it simple!!!

[a.hun]

Sounds like that'll suit me, I actually prefer to work with a core sound and an eq that's subtle rather than a powerful eq, I like to keep it simple!!!

Good to hear. Yes, simple often works best. Sure you'll be fine then!


Andy.

[indianDYsummer]

Hi pattyzero. Exciting times. Very nice amps and the build on these things is basically second to none.

I found that I actually prefer the tone of the Retro 50 at home practice levels versus gig/band levels. The tone controls are more flexible, and the bass is more defined. All high volumes it's like a midrange bullet to the face. It sounds good, but I have to crank the bass and treble, and have to keep the mids at noon. It might be my guitar though (modded jazzmaster).

Slightly odd one that Andy. With most amps I usually find myself cutting the bass as the volume goes up!

May well also be the room / cab / placement. If it is anything at all like the old ORs (which was the whole idea according to Orange at the time) then lack of bass really shouldn't be an issue.

I haven't played a Retro myself but I believe the tone controls will cut the signal gain completely when all zeroed.

Remember upping the bass control isn't the only way to get more bass. Reducing the treble (and adjusting the volume / gain / mids as needed) should also get you there. Probably just needs a rather different approach from most other amp's tone controls...

Andy.

Yeah, I agree it's pretty odd too. I've also noticed that on most amps I need to turn the bass down as the volume goes up. You are also right about tone controls on the retro- when they're all at 0, you have no sound. I tried adjusting the treble/mid controls to help, but ended up with the bass maxed, treble pretty high, and mids around noon to get closest to the tone I'm looking for. I wish I could keep the mids higher because I like the slight gain boost provided, but it's ok. I'll probably just run it with a clean boost the whole time next time I play it.

I tried it with 2 different cabs with different speakers and had the same issue, too. Maybe I'll update this thread next week and also experiment with tubes in the future. 6CA7s may be a good candidate for this amp based on my problem.

I also agree with it partially being cab placement. Apparently there's a lot of factors built into your tone! Who knew!

[a.hun]

I also agree with it partially being cab placement. Apparently there's a lot of factors built into your tone! Who knew!

Well I guess 'creative cab placement' is something I've learned as a bassist using an amp with very limited clean headroom for so long, namely my OR120.

I don't go by where it is going to look best but where it sounds best. Where you put a cab in relation to floor / walls / corners can make a HUGE difference to how the bottom end (in particular) fills a room. Moving the cab close to a back wall / corner can easily have as much effect as boosting the bass from the amp by several dB. So I can actually use a less bassy amp setting and get a lot more clean headroom without actually losing any bass just by using the rooms acoustics! Or in a boomy venue I'll lift the cab maybe a foot or so (eg on a beer crate!) and keep it a few feet away from the walls to help keep things under control. As you move a cab this also has an effect on higher frequencies too, and close to corners especially you might get some frequency cancelling effects, so it really pays to have a good listen and try a couple of different positions. You don't see many people doing that before soundchecking, but then as I say most go by where they think their rig will look best!

120W for bass isn't a lot by todays standards, especially when the amp just wants to distort! (Very nicely of course! ). But I can play some surprisingly big rooms with just that amp through a single good 4x10, 2x12 or 1x15 cab with no PA reinforcement and still get a good sound. That really is down to letting the room do a lot of the work for you.

Works with guitar too, but it is just less obvious because you are talking way less bass.


Andy.