New Tubes for the New Terror

[RedTerror]

I've been reading around, and I'm pretty sure I've traced my disappointment with my new Tiny Terror to the fizzy stock Chinese 12AX7s. I get too much gain too fast, and it's definitely the fizziness I hear often levied against 12AX7s. Either too clean, quiet and midded out, or too fuzzed and chunked out; definitely not getting the preamp shaping I'm after. I've really liked 12AX7s for their high gain in other situations, but I really can't do much with 'em here. From what I've read, the 12- series of preamp tubes are pretty much interchangeable, or "rollable," without need for rebiasing. I just wanted to check here with Orange to make sure a simple switcheroo is no problem before I crack open my head. Amp's a week old today, so I should be able to use the stock powertubes with some new preamp tubes no problem. I wanted to hear some feedback about tube companies, as I want serious swag. I'm liking what I've been hearing about Groove Tubes; they have really good testing and quality control, and a really good selection of 12- series preamp tubes. Anyone here liking the GTs? A really popular combination for the Tiny Terror seems to be 5751 in V1 and 12AT7 in V2; I'm thinkin' the Mullard and the Gold Series by GT, respectively. Anyone have experience with this or similar configurations? Is there a better tube company I should be seeking out? Any complaints with stock Chinese EL84s? Would I be better off replacing them all? I'll shell out an extra fifty for a nice matched set of EL84s if that's what'll really get 'er poppin'.

Thanks,
The Red Terror

[iblastoff]

if you don't like the way it sounds with the stock tubes, chances are you just don't like the tiny terror in general.

[Randy Bass]

You'll have to be more specific with Groove Tubes models since they have quite a few, most of which are simply relabeled versions of popular tubes. The Groove Tubes Gold Series 12AX7-C, for example, is a Chinese model that I like quite a bit. The 12AX7-R is a relabeled Sovtek/New Sensor model that I think sounds cold and lifeless in most amps.

The best thing for you to do is experiment with different brands and types of preamp tubes if you want to tweak the tone of the Tiny Terror. The 5751 would be a good start to reduce gain slightly. I would try one in V1 first without changing the PI so you can hear the difference that each tube makes. Then try as many combinations as you want until you find the tone you like best. Keep in mind that different tubes are not going to make the Tiny Terror sound like a completely different amp.

Also, tube experimentation can be a "gateway drug" that leads to tone addiction. You might find yourself eventually wanting to try different speakers with the amp. Some junkies even replace transformers in the hopes of finally capturing the elusive Tone Dragon. Be careful .

[baytamusic]

A pair of GE 12ax7 will clear you right up for low dollars. Overdrive will be clearer, smoother, and more controllable. I usually prefer NOS or tested old tubes. These will last forever. Also, biasing only refers to power tubes and the TT is self-biasing so you can change out the power tubes without bias also.

Something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-identical-mat ... 1747wt_956" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[savage8190]

You know its funny, I have a TT and I just got my DT on Friday...the DT to me sounds more fizzy than the 2 year old TT and I don't like it. I chalk it up to the tubes needing to be worn in...so yeah, a tube change might just get you there faster.

Ive read great things about Tung-Sols and/or JJ's in the power section (I had TS 6V6's in my RV and they were good, but then so were the EHX), and I like the Tung-Sols in the Pre-amp...though Ive never tried them on a terror.

Don't spend too much on tubes though...head over to TheTubeStore.com and they have a pretty good breakdown of the differences between different brands.

[Ronnie Robinson]

I like EHX in my Orange but a change in Pre Amp tubes will only give subtle changes in tone, however a change to a quality tested valve should mean better reliability and low microphonics and for those reasons a tube change would be a good idea.

Pre Amp tubes dont need biasing so u can just slot in a replacement

[RedTerror]

Nah, trust me; I love the Tiny Terror. The first time I tried one I was sold. I've heard a lot of reports of the same, and a change in tubes usually seems to make 'er do a one-eighty. The cutting tone's a good thing, I'm just experiencing severe fizziness and poor preamp shaping, for real. And I'm loving what I'm hearing! I can dig the need not to rebias; music to my ears, fellas!

And you can save your warnings; I'm already too fargone. I've been a tone junky for YEARS. It started with a single-12AX7-based tube hybrid; the soft-stuff. Real gateway drug. Then I got an early Nineties model Marshall JTM30 combo; and it was full-blown, all-tube addiction from there.

I AM STOKED ON BEING ABLE TO SWAP TUBES AT WILL!

Does this mean I can push the wattage and increase her power a tad? I'm gonna stick with EL84s, though. I saw a nice matched pair o' Mullards last night for only thirty bucks; sounds like a score. I also saw Mullard 5751s and 12AT7; I may go all Mullard. But I'll get two or three, and experiment with one at a time, and try different combinations. A matched set of 5751s sounds like a pretty good idea; pull back the gain, get some spank, and then push some Stevie Ray VICIOUS! It's all about that British all-tube tone! Love Zeppelin, Cream, The Kinks, The Who, ALL DAY, AND ALL OF THE NIGHT, BABY! I want me some o' THAT! But I really have very little experience with tube companies and makes. Can anyone give me an idea of some good tubes to capture the general sound of the bands I just mentioned? I'm looking for lots of headroom; clean sparkle with undertones of edgy growl, but I also wanna crank 'er up and start tearin' the house down with lots o' dirt, if ya catch my drift. Still sounds like GT might be the way to go from the feedback Randy gave me. They really do have a large selection and good prices. Lemme know!

Thanks for all the input, guys!

The Red Terror

[baytamusic]

I tried a NOS Mullard in V1 of my AD50 when I had it. I personally didn't like it in there.

[RedTerror]

Hmmm.. Thanks for reporting that. I know every amp is different, and it doesn't mean that it's bad in every situation, but if it didn't blow over well in an AD50, I can't see it doing well in a Tiny Terror. I don't have a lot of money, and I wanna pick out a solid matched pair of power tubes, and two or three different preamp tubes to play around with different combinations of strengths, gradations, and gains. Given the pairs involved with the Tiny Terror's layout, it might also play to its strengths to get at least two of a reliable preamp tube for continuity and receptivity. Just thinking outloud..

[OrangeJuicer]

I always made good experience with TAD tubes (tubeampdoctor.com) but they are very expensive...but sound kikkazz

[RedTerror]

You know its funny, I have a TT and I just got my DT on Friday...the DT to me sounds more fizzy than the 2 year old TT and I don't like it. I chalk it up to the tubes needing to be worn in...so yeah, a tube change might just get you there faster.

Ive read great things about Tung-Sols and/or JJ's in the power section (I had TS 6V6's in my RV and they were good, but then so were the EHX), and I like the Tung-Sols in the Pre-amp...though Ive never tried them on a terror.

Don't spend too much on tubes though...head over to TheTubeStore.com and they have a pretty good breakdown of the differences between different brands.

Thanks much, savage8190. I just took a look at thetubestore.com, and I like what I'm reading about the JJs, and they get a lot o' good rep around here. Anyone here try them in the Tiny Terror? From what I've read, EL84s are pretty high gain. Since the Tiny Terror's self-biasing, perhaps EL34s would be a good idea. Please come forward, people, I'm really trying to isolate something solid and dependable to replace my powertubes with, since they determine so much of the tone.

Thanks,
The Red Terror

[iblastoff]

You know its funny, I have a TT and I just got my DT on Friday...the DT to me sounds more fizzy than the 2 year old TT and I don't like it. I chalk it up to the tubes needing to be worn in...so yeah, a tube change might just get you there faster.

Ive read great things about Tung-Sols and/or JJ's in the power section (I had TS 6V6's in my RV and they were good, but then so were the EHX), and I like the Tung-Sols in the Pre-amp...though Ive never tried them on a terror.

Don't spend too much on tubes though...head over to TheTubeStore.com and they have a pretty good breakdown of the differences between different brands.

Thanks much, savage8190. I just took a look at thetubestore.com, and I like what I'm reading about the JJs, and they get a lot o' good rep around here. Anyone here try them in the Tiny Terror? From what I've read, EL84s are pretty high gain. Since the Tiny Terror's self-biasing, perhaps EL34s would be a good idea. Please come forward, people, I'm really trying to isolate something solid and dependable to replace my powertubes with, since they determine so much of the tone.

Thanks,
The Red Terror

you can't put el34s in a tiny terror. i have jj's in my dual terror. i did not hear any noticeable difference between them and the stock tubes.

[RedTerror]

You know its funny, I have a TT and I just got my DT on Friday...the DT to me sounds more fizzy than the 2 year old TT and I don't like it. I chalk it up to the tubes needing to be worn in...so yeah, a tube change might just get you there faster.

Ive read great things about Tung-Sols and/or JJ's in the power section (I had TS 6V6's in my RV and they were good, but then so were the EHX), and I like the Tung-Sols in the Pre-amp...though Ive never tried them on a terror.

Don't spend too much on tubes though...head over to TheTubeStore.com and they have a pretty good breakdown of the differences between different brands.

Thanks much, savage8190. I just took a look at thetubestore.com, and I like what I'm reading about the JJs, and they get a lot o' good rep around here. Anyone here try them in the Tiny Terror? From what I've read, EL84s are pretty high gain. Since the Tiny Terror's self-biasing, perhaps EL34s would be a good idea. Please come forward, people, I'm really trying to isolate something solid and dependable to replace my powertubes with, since they determine so much of the tone.

Thanks,
The Red Terror

you can't put el34s in a tiny terror. i have jj's in my dual terror. i did not hear any noticeable difference between them and the stock tubes.

Just curious, but why not? I was under the impression it was self-biasing.. Thanks for reporting on the sound, though. Maybe I can save some money on the first round and just mess around with some preamp tubes to start with.

[jason41224]

bias isn't the problem (the TT is self biasing). EL34s simply won't fit into the socket. EL34s, 6550, 6V6, 6L6, KT's (to name a few) are what you called Octal Based tubes, which have 8 larger pins around the edges, and a large center locking pin. EL84s have 9 smaller pins situated around the edges of the base (like a 12AX7) and no locking pin.

there are adapters to put EL84s into octal (EL34) sockets, like the THD Yellow Jacket, but they don't have any mechanism to do the reverse (put an EL34 into a 9-pin socket)

[RedTerror]

bias isn't the problem (the TT is self biasing). EL34s simply won't fit into the socket. EL34s, 6550, 6V6, 6L6, KT's (to name a few) are what you called Octal Based tubes, which have 8 larger pins around the edges, and a large center locking pin. EL84s have 9 smaller pins situated around the edges of the base (like a 12AX7) and no locking pin.

there are adapters to put EL84s into octal (EL34) sockets, like the THD Yellow Jacket, but they don't have any mechanism to do the reverse (put an EL34 into a 9-pin socket)

Oh! I see, of course. Forgive me, I know little about tubes, apart from having some experience with some great sounding ones, and it shows. Is there some type of guide to which tubes fit in nine-pin sockets? Would like to observe my options a bit. However, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna stick with some type of EL84; I wanna play to 'er strengths, and I really like the Tiny Terror when it's at the top of its game. Plus, there seems to be a lot of biodiversity, if you will, in the EL84 line. I'm strongly considering this one:

http://thetubestore.com/preferred7189.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://thetubestore.com/el84review.html#preferredseries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds like it's built like a tank, and I'm looking for something that can stand up to some extreme conditions, just to play it safe. I really need reliability. But damned if those Gold Lions don't sound right on the money. JJ's might be a safe bet, too.