Recording mic help pls

Orange Amps General Forum

Moderator: bclaire

Mrjones2004x
Orange Master
Posts: 1436
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: Dunstable UK

Recording mic help pls

Post by Mrjones2004x » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:40 pm

Hi guys got a web cam running now at home and the built in mic is shite as to be expected.
I can record my blackstar ht5 via line out option but wanna do it with a mic.

Want it to be pretty cheap as it's something just for mucking about and for YouTube not pro recording ect.

Any certain types to look for? Condenser springs to mind? Just guessing tho lol

Thanks
Tone is everything

irish_admiral
Prince of Orange
Posts: 18031
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:57 am
Location: Wales

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by irish_admiral » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:21 pm

If it's just for mucking about, why not stick with the line out?

Other than that, there are plenty of options. You can use a condenser, or a dynamic mic. For live use, most people use a dynamic mic. A decent dynamic mic will pick up the tone absolutely fine.

It depends what else you want to use the mic for... if it's literally for just recording the amp at home and nothing else, and you don't mind what it sounds like, you can just find a cheap condenser or dynamic and go with it. The Thomann or Red5 ones would do.

If you want to use it live, it's worth thinking about spending some more cash, but again, the Thomann or Red5 ones would be alright. Fairly cheap... you're looking at £30-35.
Joe

G(sus) saves

Orange AD15, Matamp 1224, Fender 'JD' Tele, G&L ASAT, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Eggle Kanuga, Avalon D25, Warwick FNA Jazzman, Eden Nemesis / Bergantino EX112S, Eastman MD305 & other stuff...

Ddjembe Mutombo
Orange Master
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:31 am
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Contact:

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by Ddjembe Mutombo » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:56 pm

Shure SM57. $99 USD new. Don't buy used on ebay, a lot of fake Chinese copies are floating around out there. If you buy used make sure to buy from a physical retailer. They are the most common mics for miking cabs live. A lot of recording engineers use them in the studio too. I've put one through a $2.5k preamp and $3k converter. Sounds excellent.
Monty

Mrjones2004x
Orange Master
Posts: 1436
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: Dunstable UK

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by Mrjones2004x » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:07 pm

irish_admiral wrote:If it's just for mucking about, why not stick with the line out?
Hopefully i should be getting a dark terror soon as the money is awaiting and id like to record with that which wont have a line out option like the ht5. The ht5 willbe going to part fund the dark terror. My other pedals are going to fund another pedal hopefully :wink:

So yeah a cheap mic for use in my cellar. Wont be for live. Wont be for proper recording just for youtube stuff. If i ever get into a band and decide to play live or record proper music then id buy good but for now a cheap and chearfull one will be fine.

Wasnt sure if i needed a certain type condensor, dynamic?

Is there a reason for one over another? It will only be for the amp sound and talking on video but not for singing stuff.

Thanks
Tone is everything

RickenBangler
Orange Hero
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: Alderney, Channel Islands
Contact:

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by RickenBangler » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:02 am

Hi...

As a general rule dynamics tend to be preferred for recording instruments - indeed, many are designed specifically for this purpose. The Shure SM57 (like Ddjembe said) is pretty much the industry standard - whatever, you won't go wrong with one of these but yeah, watch out for the fakes. A great, lower cost alternative is the Shure PG57, slightly less dynamic range but still a very good piece of kit for a 'budget' mic. Here ya go:

http://youtu.be/T3AqT8uLUro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would advise against getting something dirt cheap - even if it is 'just for mucking about and for YouTube', you may as well give your uploads a fighting chance.... and with either of these you'll be able to move to the next level without splashing out further.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

RB
CR60C+PPC112 Mini Stack
Rickenbacker 620/6 JetGlo | G&L Fallout | Fender P-Bass
MarkBass Micromark 801
Past Orange Relationships Micro Crush | Crush CR35LDX | Tiny Terror | OR15/PPC112

The Provocateurs Bandcamp

Thinline_slim
Orange Master
Posts: 2731
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:16 am
Location: Colorado - USA

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by Thinline_slim » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:47 am

I would agree with what has been said. Personally I'd go with a dynamic mic (no phantom power needed) and stick to an SM57 (or similar from another mfg) or a Sennheiser e609 or e906 simply for the utility. The more you progress in playing the chances are you will find a use for a good dynamic mic be it for tracking vocals at band practice, micing a cab live or recording, etc. Buy cheap the first time and you'll end up buying again.

I wouldn't mess with a condenser mic at this point for your first mic. They take longer to dial in and are much more sensitive to mic preamp matching and phantom power. Plus they pick up damn near everything in the room and they usually have a tone of their own. Also, they aren't very sturdy in terms of taking out live to a gig like a solid dynamic mic is.

My first choice for tracking or recording is a dynamic and then I start playing with a condenser but I never start with the condenser first. Just my approach.
Jake
OrangePaul wrote:Ok gitar lead to you Jake :D
"One of the 400"

Image

http://www.purevolume.com/JakeMcallasterBand/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

irish_admiral
Prince of Orange
Posts: 18031
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:57 am
Location: Wales

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by irish_admiral » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:19 am

Ok, so in this case, it's not worth splashing out for a decent Shure or Sennheiser. I'd get one of these:

http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Dynam ... hones.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_mb85_beta.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've used both live before and they're decent enough, although they suffer from higher handling noise than better mics. It's not a problem as you'll have them on a stand.

As a side note, condensers are often used for recording instruments as they're more sensitive, but not live. It'll pick up your voice better from further away, but as Jake said, is more likely to be tetchy.
Joe

G(sus) saves

Orange AD15, Matamp 1224, Fender 'JD' Tele, G&L ASAT, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Eggle Kanuga, Avalon D25, Warwick FNA Jazzman, Eden Nemesis / Bergantino EX112S, Eastman MD305 & other stuff...

Mrjones2004x
Orange Master
Posts: 1436
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: Dunstable UK

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by Mrjones2004x » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:01 am

Ok thanks guys I'll look into the ones mentioned.

Will try the web cam mic first to see how bad it is. Had it connected wrong before.

Had the cam mic plugged into the mic input and it just has loads of noise along with the recording? With it unplugged it's fine? Good clear recording? Not sure of quality yet tho. Can't imagine great tho.

Wouldn't even know how to run a separate mic to the video recording. Oh well just have a play lol
Tone is everything

Mrjones2004x
Orange Master
Posts: 1436
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: Dunstable UK

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by Mrjones2004x » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:09 pm

Ok tried recording.

Video quality with the 2 web cams I have is completely shite!

Very jumpy and bad colour.

And the audio quality one was really really bad and the other was ok but very dark and muffled.

Think I'll abandon using web cam all together.

How else can I record.? Think I could do better quality on my iPhone!
Tone is everything

Wolfe
Tiny Terror
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:11 am

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by Wolfe » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:24 pm

can't remember the name of it but if it's just for mucking about why not get a dynamic cardioid mic made by behringer? :wink:

edit:
it is the behringer xm8500
you can get it brand new for around £18
Wolfy'
Image

indianDYsummer
Orange Master
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:00 am
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by indianDYsummer » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:32 pm

Yeah, I would also just bite the bullet and get an SM57 if you aren't interested in trying out comparably priced mics. This way, you'll have an actual great mic that will last forever (probably) and you won't have to buy another mic down the road if/when you get more serious. The monetary difference isn't that big, especially if you wait for like a 10% off sale from a retailer.

There are also these sweet packages that give you the SM57, stand, clip, XLR cable, for really not much more than many retailers sell the mic for. Check the online (or local) UK music equipment retailers that you typically browse for stuff. I've finally learned it's worth buying quality gear (especially the cheap stuff) since you'll save yourself another expense down the road.
Image

irish_admiral
Prince of Orange
Posts: 18031
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:57 am
Location: Wales

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by irish_admiral » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:08 pm

Just a quick point with my PA tech hat on...

Shure SM57s are classic workhorses of the industry. They're not particularly great as instrument or vocal mics, nor are they bad. They get used a lot as they're durable and have been around for a long time to most techs know how to EQ one and make it sound good, as each of the Shure mics has distinct characteristics.

Case in point... I know if you put a guy on an SM58 for vocals, he'll take a cut at about 650hz to make the vocals sound good. If you give him a different mic, the cut will be in a different place, or you'll hardly need to cut at all (in the case of better mics).

If you buy new, I would not buy an SM57. There are better mics which do vocals & instruments better. The Beta 57 for a start. I also rate the Sennheiser instrument mics better.

For "cheaper" mics produced in the far east, the sound is often absolutely fine. Nothing hugely detailed, but good enough. The problems are usually in the handling noise for singers who hold a mic as the capsule isn't isolated as effectively.

Hence if you're miking up an amp in a basement on the cheap, not going to use it for handheld vocals, there's no point buying a Shure SM57. The Red 5 mic I listed is modelled after the Sennheiser E845s, and - as i've got an 845 as well - they stack up nicely, but the handling noise is worse. That's it.

Don't get me wrong, the Shures etc will be absolutely fine, but there's no point spending on them in this instance. It's like getting a nice sports soft-top car to use to nip to the shops in when no one is going to see you. Just no point.
Joe

G(sus) saves

Orange AD15, Matamp 1224, Fender 'JD' Tele, G&L ASAT, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Eggle Kanuga, Avalon D25, Warwick FNA Jazzman, Eden Nemesis / Bergantino EX112S, Eastman MD305 & other stuff...

nlimbaugh
Orange Master
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:13 am

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by nlimbaugh » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:43 pm

I have a nice sennheiser dynamic, but I don't think it's worth the extra cost when compared to the SM57.

Ddjembe Mutombo
Orange Master
Posts: 1382
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:31 am
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Contact:

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by Ddjembe Mutombo » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:43 pm

I use SM57s for snares and guitar speakers in high end studios. They are incredible mics. They are the best thing that you can buy in the music industry for $99 USD
Monty

irish_admiral
Prince of Orange
Posts: 18031
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:57 am
Location: Wales

Re: Recording mic help pls

Post by irish_admiral » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:14 pm

I agree they're a decent thing for a studio to have - I won't say the best, but they're decent. The coloration on the individual mics you get between brands is different. Senns, Shures, AKGs etc will all have different frequency responses. I tend to find Sennheisers - in general - smoother and more detailed in the top end for vocals than Shures are, which sound a bit grainier. Not better or worse, just different.

They often have more of a proximity boost which is great for singers who can make the most of it, but you need great mic technique to do so. Not a lot do! That's why I use Senns for my own vocals... they're a bit more forgiving.

A quick price comparison:

Shure SM57 - £95 in the UK, so about $150USD.
Sennheiser E845 - £80
Sennheiser E606 - £95
AKG D5 - £60

So these are just a few common 'brand name' mics. Shure are generally the most expensive in the UK. So they're about half as much again as you pay in the USA, and that's as they're US-made. Sennheiser come from Germany, so they're comparatively cheaper

Yes, studios have SM57s. Why? Because they're a recognised brand and every tech in the world has probably used one at some point and has got a decent idea about how to EQ them. Bands will want to see a name they recognise as - and I think it's been demonstrated here - people think Shure do the best mics. It's business sense. Does it make it the best tool for the job? Not necessarily.

How many studios do you see carrying a Gibson or Fender custom shop guitar? How many might carry a Matamp, Dumble or Matchless amp? How many will carry Neumann mics? A few might, but most won't.

Every studio in the world will probably have a M*rshall amp sitting in it somewhere. Does that mean everyone should get one and they're the best? Hell no. Every studio worth their salt will carry some decent gear that people can get some good noises out of, or make decent recordings with, but it won't always be the best.

The point is that the SM57 is one option for miking up a guitar amp. It is a proven and reliable one and will give you a decent result with a decent dollop of midrange. However, my experience is that they aren't as detailed on the top end as a Sennheiser, they're not as clear as a Beta57, and they've got less gain before feedback than one too.

So it's a safe bet, and Shure's advertising is built to pushing you towards it. But when there are plenty of other mics out there which offer comparable and arguably better performance for the same money, or less, why limit yourself? As pointed out, because Shure are US-made, they're pricey in the UK.

They are good mics, not incredible. That's why they cost $99, not $9999. Let's not build it up to be something it isn't.

And the point is, Paul wanted a cheap basement recording solution. Not a Shure SM57.

/rant.
Joe

G(sus) saves

Orange AD15, Matamp 1224, Fender 'JD' Tele, G&L ASAT, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Eggle Kanuga, Avalon D25, Warwick FNA Jazzman, Eden Nemesis / Bergantino EX112S, Eastman MD305 & other stuff...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 105 guests