OT: purchasing a van soon

[colfaxrev]

If anyone has done a little touring and knows a thing or two about ups and down of types of vans i'd like to know before making a big purchase

diesel vs non regular
12v15 passenger

engine power

mileage



i'm currently most interested in a ford econoline 350, which is a regular gas powered van, 15 passenger (big enough that i don't NEED a trailer right away) , and powerful enough that it can tow a trailer later if needeed



some ppl suggested dodge sprinter, but i think that's out of my price range, i can find 350s for under 12 grand through a dealership pretty easy

a sprinter seems to be $30k+, $20k if you're REALLY lucky. but over time if the gas mileage is way better and can somehow get approved it might make sense to go for it long run.

thanks for any input you might have

[nguideau]

I've never toured, but if you are looking at the Sprinter, you might want to look into the Ford Transit Connect as well. It kind of looks to me like it's very similar to the Sprinter, but perhaps a bit smaller (and more affordable).

[baytamusic]

I've toured in the past. We had big vans and I'll tell you the gas would just rip you apart these days if you aren't making any real money and your shows aren't in cities close together. I'd be looking into a mini van like a Nissan, Toyota, or maybe a VW Eurovan that gets good gas mileage and has enough power to tow a small trailer. Then I'd get some small combo amps and wait until I was more established and making some good money at shows before I spent $20k on a van that's going to suck gas just so you can bring the big amps along. You need to think economically right now. Spend 5k on something practical and drive it into the ground.

[Borderline Productions]

The 15 person vans are not as safe as the person vans, especially if they are loaded in the back (and that never happens with a touring band). I would go the mini-van/trailer route. Much better on the gas bill. Also if you can fit everything in to the minivan you are way ahead. I have a minivan and you'd be surprised how much room they have.

[MaxProphet]

def. get diesel, and make sure it has overdrive

and yeah the 15 pass. are notorious for fishtailing/rollovers. i think some provinces have banned them for use by sports teams/schools/clubs etc.

[jason41224]

i would only get one if you're touring a good chunk out of the year-if you're like me, where we tour 2 months out of the year, it's better to rent than to buy. buying requires insurance, and a place to stay 10 months out of the year when you're not using it. it can get quite expensive.

even better than renting is finding a pickup truck and a camper shell. (like this: http://www.redbarn.netfirms.com/LED_Frontier_2.jpg). my old band went a whole month on the road in one of these-an old 96 Nissan, and it worked great. the back seats were sideways, and very cramped, and long drives were not pleasant, but it was very doable for my band of 4. not to mention the 15-20 mpg we got was a lifesaver.

if you gotta buy, i gotta echo the thoughts above, go with a trailer. you won't regret it.

[colfaxrev]

taking all this into consideration thanks for the input

we are planning playing a lot of shows all over, so comfort IS a selling point for sure

we rented a 15 passeneger last time, and we're already going on another one, we were out for 2 weeks and it cost us 2 grand. which seems like as much as we're planning on playing should have been a downpayment. the next tour is 3 -4 weeks long. ones after that might start being 2-3 months

maybe if a 15 is unsafe when loaded heavily in the back, then a 12 passenger with a trailer (trailer eventually) would be a better bet?

I'm going to pull out the calculator and do some gas mileage estimates over 4000 mile trips etc.

does anyone know if there's a gas mileage calculator online that you can take into account weight of the load in the car?

there are other things like, driving over the rockies from utah to colorado. better ot have a powerful engine that's not going to blow out and suck gas like no ones business like a weaker engine would

maybe a minivan/trailer combo could work

[Randy Bass]

The vast majority of minivans will have adapted car transmissions that do not hold up to frequent towing, especially if you are going to be traversing the Rockies regularly. Minivans are usually underpowered for their given GVWR as well, so working them hard with a trailer is asking for trouble. The fuel efficiency would drop significantly when towing as well. I would rather lose a few MPG with a proper van or large SUV in order to avoid breaking down frequently.

[colfaxrev]

The vast majority of minivans will have adapted car transmissions that do not hold up to frequent towing, especially if you are going to be traversing the Rockies regularly. Minivans are usually underpowered for their given GVWR as well, so working them hard with a trailer is asking for trouble. The fuel efficiency would drop significantly when towing as well. I would rather lose a few MPG with a proper van or large SUV in order to avoid breaking down frequently.

really good input randy, thanks, that was my feeling was if i'm traveling as much as i'm about to and going up and down the rockies and other areas like that, i need something that will WORK

[baytamusic]

I'm sticking with the minivan and small trailer. A couple combo amps, a small bass amp and some drums would be fine. A 6 cylinder Nissan would work. I personally wouldn't be touring in seriously mountainous areas anyways. It sucks dude. I won't go back unless I'm getting paid decent enough. I'm done with the "I'll tour anywhere anytime, I don't care" living the dream bs. It gets you nowhere.

Word of advice. Tour the east coast and midwest if you can instead of the west. It's waaay easier. The population density is much more doable for an unknown band. You've got way more big cities in close vicinity. I've made that mistake before when I used to live in Arizona. Tough times I tell you.

Good luck man, I salute you!

[nguideau]

Yeah, if you head east you can setup shop in the NYC area, and play a shitload of shows in Boston, Providence, New Haven, NYC, Philadelphia, and Washington DC. And never be more than a long night's drive from home base.

[fiveightandten]

How many people are in the band, and do any of you have the ability to work on the vehicle yourself or know someone that owns a garage who will cut you a break?

That's really what it comes down to IMO.

There's no way I would spend $12K on a vehicle for a band unless we were completely self sufficient and making some decent cash. In the coming years, gas prices will soar even higher, and resale on vehicles like that will tank. You don't want to be upside down, financially speaking, on a vehicle and have something happen with the band (people move, get married, quit...stuff happens)...owe more than it's worth, etc.

IMO, it's better to have a cheaper vehicle that may have higher maintenance costs periodically than to spend a ton of money on something. I work on my own cars, i'd MUCH rather throw a new transmission in an old cheap van then spend a ton of money on a newer more expensive one.

I'd look into an older 6 cylinder Econoline. They're very reliable, and not *that* bad on gas. No worse than a 6 cylinder minivan will be loaded up with tons of gear. Diesel is expensive, and can be bothersome in cold weather...or when you're god knows where, running out of fuel, and you have to find a station that has Diesel.

We had an old ('98) E250 that we bought for $1200. It fit all our gear and 5 of us. It was tight, but it worked. The drive shaft U-joint went on us while we were on the road. It was an $800 repair bill. But $1200 + $800 is less than $12,000 if you see my point. Just learn a little about cars and do some preventative maintenance before any long trips or demanding use. Good vans regularly run for a long time before needing any costly repairs. The transmission is your biggest concern. And make sure the brakes are in good working order. All that extra weight makes a BIG difference on how much heat they see when going down inclines on the highway. Fresh fluid and new pads are a must when touring in the summer loaded up with gear.

-Nick

[Randy Bass]

...I'd look into an older 6 cylinder Econoline. They're very reliable, and not *that* bad on gas. No worse than a 6 cylinder minivan will be loaded up with tons of gear. Diesel is expensive, and can be bothersome in cold weather...or when you're god knows where, running out of fuel, and you have to find a station that has Diesel...

+1

The Ford 300 c.i. straight six is a very reliable engine with decent torque and decent mileage. It's also fairly easy to repair and parts are easy to find. Diesel is only a good idea if you guys can afford a bus .

[colfaxrev]

How many people are in the band, and do any of you have the ability to work on the vehicle yourself or know someone that owns a garage who will cut you a break?

3 right now but soon 4 with a keyboard player, my drummer's uncle and cousin own a garage i believe.

...and have something happen with the band (people move, get married, quit...stuff happens)...owe more than it's worth, etc.

If someone gets married, that's their deal, if someone quits that's there deal I'm moving forward either way. I might be insane, but I've pretty much sealed my path in life with blood. It's success or death trying, I want a journey. I've already been married, that didn't work out, I don't really care for the normal life style everyone lives so, F**k'it just moving forward no fear

I hear what you're saying about an older van with higher maintenance cost from time to time, although with a lot of bands I talked to that tour a lot, they all have told me "dude, if you can afford it, get a newer van it sucks breaking down in the middle of nowhere"

this is going to be my lifestyle for quite some time, so I look at it as an investment.

With a laptop and wireless card I can still be making bank with web development in the backseat while someone else drives the van which i will be doing as long as necessary

Every band I look into documentaries on, started having thigns happen for them once they had a way to play shows all over as much as possible, that is how you get good

[chinese fork tie]

mike watt still tours in an econoline. if it's good enough for watt, it should be good enough for you.