Speaker Recommendation(s)

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a.hun
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Re: Speaker Recommendation(s)

Post by a.hun » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:03 pm

Le Chat Noir wrote:
To me, the R30 already sounds like a 50w amp ;)
Fair point! There is such a think as overkill in my book... :D
I think one reason the G12T-75 seems quieter is that it has less mids to it... for the same reasons but in reverse, a G12M can hang with other speakers rated higher. It's all about the midrange, which makes it stick out when paired with more efficient but less midrangey speakers.
Totally agree. Cutting through with electric guitar is all about the mids. And yes the G12M is pretty much all about mids too as they really dominate.

I'm really not fond of the G12T, though they can sound pretty decent with some amps, especially ones which can really push out (upper) mids like Marshalls and Mesas, or for scooped mid type sounds. But to my mind they rob most amps of a lot of their punch for the exact same reason - they just don't put out strongly at all in the mids. I've mentioned before how that exact same studio Marshall 4x12 emasculated my OR120 by making it sound like an ill 50 watter. For some reason a mate was planning on recording his DC5 through it, until he A/B'd the combos own MC90 speaker. It wasn't even just a little louder (or better sounding!) - the difference was really dramatic. So probably not a fair comparison at all - hard to say from just that whether the MC90 is particularly strong sounding or the G12T particularly weak. (IMO both are true!)

Measurements of speaker efficiency are pretty hit and miss of course because they are normally just made at one frequency, often 1kHz where our ears are near their most sensitive. The MC90 appeals because it isn't a million miles from the G12H-30 tonally, with very good bass, great mids and nice present but not shrill top end. But then again the CV would seem to have all that too being like a bassier V.30 minus the peaky upper mids. Thats kind of my dilemma right now...
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=295825" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:idea: I should just go for the best of both worlds: Get a CV for the R.30 combo itself (nice and light too being a neo magnet), and an MC90 for my Mesa 1x12 cab (even nicer than the well okay 50W Eminence Black Shadow in there, and also a Mesa!).

Hey, problem solved! Thanks for helping bounce ideas guys. I'm sorted!!!


Andy. :D :D :D
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

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screamingdaisy
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Re: Speaker Recommendation(s)

Post by screamingdaisy » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:41 pm

a.hun wrote: Other speaker I am seriously thinking of putting in the R.30C is a Mesa MC90. Only thing making me hesitate is that they are too darn efficient. (Don't have a figure, but I'd estimate probably going on 2dB more than a G12H or V.30. One MC90 in a Mesa combo was markedly louder than the same amp through a G12T-75 loaded Marshall 4x12 anyhow!) So the R.30 would probably sound more like a 50-60W 1x12, which frankly I don't need. Still may end up going that route though - those modded Celestions are great sounding drivers too, and at least I'd never run out of clean headroom with the clean channel. :wink:
The MC-90 is about the same as the V30 in terms of volume. The open back design and the fact that G12Ts are 3db less efficent would've had the largest affect on your test. The fact that your comparing a 1x12 to a 4x12 has little to do with volume... one will sound fuller, but the overall volume will stay more or less the same.

The MC-90 a darker speaker with lots more low mids and bottom end than the V30 has. When pushed it's a chunkier sounding speaker that doesn't have the same mid punch as a V30. I think it does much better low volume stuff than a V30 (doesn't need to be pushed hard to fill out/smooth out like the V30 does), and it produces a much, much nicer clean.
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Le Chat Noir
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Re: Speaker Recommendation(s)

Post by Le Chat Noir » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:35 pm

If I spot a 16 ohm CV second hand I'm going to snap it up for my R30, ditto if I post an 8 ohm for my AD30. I have bought one already for my AD30 and it seems a great speaker. One big plus is they seem to go for little money used, everyone wants more well-known speakers like V30s... in fact I saw a hardly used CV go for 25GBP on the Matamp forum recently, it was gone by the time I asked after it :(
Teddy
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a.hun
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Re: Speaker Recommendation(s)

Post by a.hun » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:26 pm

screamingdaisy wrote:The MC-90 is about the same as the V30 in terms of volume. The open back design and the fact that G12Ts are 3db less efficent would've had the largest affect on your test. The fact that your comparing a 1x12 to a 4x12 has little to do with volume... one will sound fuller, but the overall volume will stay more or less the same.

The MC-90 a darker speaker with lots more low mids and bottom end than the V30 has. When pushed it's a chunkier sounding speaker that doesn't have the same mid punch as a V30. I think it does much better low volume stuff than a V30 (doesn't need to be pushed hard to fill out/smooth out like the V30 does), and it produces a much, much nicer clean.
Sorry, don't agree on that bit. Adding speakers does increase the actual sound pressure levels achieved. In effect adding identical speakers increases the overall speaker efficiency. It is fairly well known that you can gain approaching 2dB for each doubling of speakers, and going from a 1x12 to a 4x12 you have two doublings,
1 --> 2 --> 4 speakers

The sensitivity / efficiency / volume increase of four speakers in close proximity to each other over a single speaker of the same type is nearly 2+2 = (nearly) 4dB in total - easily noticable. Using a 4x12 over a 1x12 is easily like doubling the power of your amp! (= +3dB.)

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... e+speakers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For a 97dB efficient single speaker that makes for about a 101dB efficient 4x12 cab.
If we were talking about a 100dB efficient speaker you'd get a (nearly) 104dB efficient 4x12 cab. The 3dB sensitivity difference between the speaker types is maintained though.

My own (mainly studio) experience of the MC 90 (with the amps I've tried it with) was that it is also noticably louder than either a V.30 or a G12H. As I say I'd reckon a good couple of dB, basically because anything less really isn't very noticable. (1 dB being about the smallest change in SPL we can hear. By definition we can just hear that.) Meaning that a single MC90 is going to pretty much hold its own volume wise with a V.30 or G12H loaded 2x12 cab. However I've never seen an actually quoted sensitivity figure for the MC90 so that is a 'guesstimate' on my part. I do believe it to be in the order of a couple of decibels more efficient though. Which might well prove a bit OTT for what is already a loudish 30W 1x12 combo...

Like I said myself above of course the single MC90 vs. G12T 4x12 comparison wasn't really a fair one - they are just so different tonally. It was quite striking though.

A fuller bottom end and low mids are exactly what I'm after for my R.30C and 1x12 cab. And the nice cleans and good low volume performance of the MC90 (I agree there :) ) may just make using them together a realistic proposition too. Anyway I think I probably will be going the CV and MC90 route so hopefully I'll be able to give you my impressions at some point, whenever it actually happens... :)


Andy.
aNDyH. :wink:

Ever tried to outstare a mirror?

In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!

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