how do you guys feel about modding amps?

[hithere]

I find this to be an interesting topic, as say somewhere like the gear page there is a ton of focus on it.

Some say it's all about how they weren't made like they were back in the day, and I think some just are in pursuit of something that will never be.

I find this issue interesting because as you guys know and always help out I am soon off to school, and bringing my princeton reverb reissue with me. Huge Ryan Adams fan, who uses princetons, and my princeton sounds nothing like his.

I posted these clips of it (harsh drive)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1014009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

compared to the smooth sounds of ryan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaoPqTWX1Q8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I got all these requests to do some elaborate mods to the amps and it kinda turns me off.

New tubes is one thing, and probably the last thing I will do in the future before I just buy a tiny terror.

But they go on to say you need to get ryan's tone tubby 300 dollar speaker. And assorted other mods to the circuit.

I am hoping the tubes will do it, some said some jj preamp tubes will make all the difference


but how do you guys feel about it.

do you simply buy what sounds good in the store and never think about mods?
is a lot of it guys picking the wrong tool for the job, and using fender/boutique clean amps with 400 dollar drive pedals expecting a marshall sound?

I feel when you aren't making a decent amount of money it's hard to plunge headfirst into 100 dollar mods without knowing the outcome

[thenetsux]

Personally, I don't consider tube and speaker changes mods. I don't think I'll ever find an amp that comes stock exactly how I want it. I always expect to change at least a few of te preamp tubes and will likely toy around with power tubes and speaker combinations to find what I think sounds the "best" with the amp. I'd consider "mods" being any modification to theoriginal schematic, ie changing capaictor vaulues on the inputs or resistor values in the tone stack all the way to allowing the amp to run on different power tubes. Those I would say should only be done after you exhaust possibilities with tubes and speakers just because they can effect the resale value of the amp. Unless you know exactly what your doing, you could end up further from where you started in your pursuit of "tone".
As for sounding like another artist, I'd search some forums for speakers that are close to the type that they use if you don't wham to spend serious $$$ on their signiture models. Surely they used somehing else before that. Experimentation is really important. You should spend a little money on some preamp tubes and try all of them out. Read some descriptions of 12ax7 types at thetubestore.com and buy a handful. Personalizing your gear is one of the best things about being a musician for me. Makes me feel more connected to my sound/style.

[BrianGT]

I think that most mods are done for fine tuning to suit the player. If you have to mod a Fender to sound like a Marshall then to me you should have bought a Marshall.
I think that changing speakers and tubes is a personal thing and I wouldn't really call them mods. Most mods are to fine tune the amp, say changing a resistor or cap to make it less bright or even darker.......and maybe add or take away a little gain. If it's a PCB amp it can be quite tricky but turret board or handwired amps are far easier.
An example: I love my Matamp 1224 but it just lacked a little bit of clean headroom when playing loudly with a humbucker and with a heavy drummer.
I've had it 6 years and love the amp so much that I put up with it. However, I was at Matamp this week and they changed the mains transformer to give me more voltage which upped the power. It has given me all the clean headroom I need and yet still sounds the same....I call that a mod worth doing because it makes my amp 100% perfect for me.
It was better to mod the amp I know and love because I still have the same amp.
You should check the mods listed to see how far his amp has been modded......and I bet is amp is an early handwired amp. Very easy to mod.
I'm not familiar with his sound or gear so I may be wrong there..........

[kittenface]

my AD30H and 2X12 are bone stock 'cept for tube changes

it was the sound I fell in love with when I got it 6 years ago
and still never fails to delight me

the 'relentless pursuit of tone' is just that, relentless

my search is over, thank God

[not_again]

I think that most mods are done for fine tuning to suit the player. If you have to mod a Fender to sound like a Marshall then to me you should have bought a Marshall.
I think that changing speakers and tubes is a personal thing and I wouldn't really call them mods. Most mods are to fine tune the amp, say changing a resistor or cap to make it less bright or even darker.......and maybe add or take away a little gain. If it's a PCB amp it can be quite tricky but turret board or handwired amps are far easier.
An example: I love my Matamp 1224 but it just lacked a little bit of clean headroom when playing loudly with a humbucker and with a heavy drummer.
I've had it 6 years and love the amp so much that I put up with it. However, I was at Matamp this week and they changed the mains transformer to give me more voltage which upped the power. It has given me all the clean headroom I need and yet still sounds the same....I call that a mod worth doing because it makes my amp 100% perfect for me.
It was better to mod the amp I know and love because I still have the same amp.
You should check the mods listed to see how far his amp has been modded......and I bet is amp is an early handwired amp. Very easy to mod.
I'm not familiar with his sound or gear so I may be wrong there..........

Super glad Matamp finally got it right for you!
Hope all is well and you are doing great!
mp

[kittenface]

hey there Mark - long time, no .......

[Nork]

i'm in agreeance that tube selection/speaker selection aren't mods and that mods are changes made to the original circuit. pre/power tubes are extras - if the circuit is designed to work with el84's and preamp tubes, then whether you use jj's or tung's or mullards...you're still using an el84. changing the tiny terror to work on 6l6's tho...that would be a mod.

[not_again]

hey there Mark - long time, no .......

My best to you as well young man!
Hope all is well...Have a super weekend!

[kittenface]

'young man' - you're too kind

[Taronja]

im not big into modding expensive quality amps, IE Marshall 800's and the like.

i was considering replacing the OT in my Valve Junior to a Mercury Magnetic, but i might as well just get a Tiny Terror for an extra $200 and have way cooler amp

but it might just turn into a Dual Terror, from what iv been reading these Duals Terrors are really awesome.

so yeah im not really into modding amps, it just ruins them, and the resale value is just gone. and i agree with the above statement, "just get another amp that you like"

but for kicks and giggles and fun of learning i might be adding a tone and gain knob to my VJ as the thing is not worth much as it is. but i would NEVER mod any of my big amps.

Jon

[nguideau]

I am with the sentiment shared above... it's one thing changing tubes and speakers/cabs, another thing actually modding a circuit or changing components in the circuit.

I think it makes more sense to play as many amps as possible, and take home the ones that sound good to your ears, and give you the features you are looking for. We are all guilty of falling prey to buying something because:
- Artist XYZ uses it
- We like Artist XYZ
- Therefore we will like it

...when that's not really true!

[a.hun]

I think that most mods are done for fine tuning to suit the player. If you have to mod a Fender to sound like a Marshall then to me you should have bought a Marshall.

Yep. You at least want to start with the right basic amp. But I'm not against mods to tweak things in the right direction.

The only one of my amps I've modded myself was my small 10W PA amp. I put different value caps in two identical channels to brighten them up to suit single coil and humbuckered guitars respectively. The amp isn't valuable anyway and the mod is of course totally reversible.

Not being a 'original collectors condition' nutter though I'd have no major problem with having any of my amps modded if I thought there was a good performance, reliability or safety reason for it. Examples of the last would be replacing any suspicious old electrolytic capacitors, and replacing the even more iffy original 2 core mains cables on really old amps with a properly fitted and earthed / grounded cable. That may not please a collector who wants EVERYTHING original, regardless of functionality. But it makes serious sense for any user who wants to gig the amp...

Of course so many classic designs were so good to start with that most 'performance' mods turn out to be counter-productive in one way or another. An electronics whizz mate of mine decided to mod (and 'improve') my AC30 head some years back. He built and fitted a clever little circuit to allow each valve to be biased up separately. Technically, in 'hi-fi terms' anyway, it sounded like a very good idea. Too bad it just happened to kill the characteristic sound of the amp. (He had removed the normal simple cathode biasing system which I now know is really important to the sound of these amps!) When an experienced amp tech saw what he had done he said that it had been beautifully done but was still... "a very bad idea. I removed the new circuit board, wired things back as they were, and suddenly it sounded like an AC30 again!"
Well, I'll certainly not be trying that mod again!

Like many other classic amp designs the old Orange heads were pretty well thought out in the first place. Which is why you'll see relatively few modded examples. Most of those which have been modded have had either of two things done: a standby switch fitted (for increased valve life and reliability) or a master volume control (for increased performance possibilities). Both reasonable enough ideas. Orange of course then came up with the MV 'Overdrive' models, and the 'Series II' Overdrive even had standby.
As far as common mods done to change ('improve') the sound though - yeah, right...

Similarly many of the old Marshalls which have been modded simply had an effects loop fitted. In fact these unofficial mods were so popular that the recent Vintage Series 'Reissues' of the 1959 Plexi and JCM800 heads both have (fully bypassable) effects loops fitted on their back panels!

So done right amp mods can make a lot of sense. If done for good reasons, well thought out and properly implemented that is. While I don't like seeing nice old amps hacked up needlessly I have zero problems with non destructive easily reversible mods.

Just my own opinion of course.


Andy.

[Drdos]

'young man' - you're too kind

Yeah your an Old Fart aren't cha! OK so am I...

[Orphin]

I find this to be an interesting topic, as say somewhere like the gear page there is a ton of focus on it.

Some say it's all about how they weren't made like they were back in the day, and I think some just are in pursuit of something that will never be.

I find this issue interesting because as you guys know and always help out I am soon off to school, and bringing my princeton reverb reissue with me. Huge Ryan Adams fan, who uses princetons, and my princeton sounds nothing like his.

I posted these clips of it (harsh drive)

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1014009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

compared to the smooth sounds of ryan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaoPqTWX1Q8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I got all these requests to do some elaborate mods to the amps and it kinda turns me off.

New tubes is one thing, and probably the last thing I will do in the future before I just buy a tiny terror.

But they go on to say you need to get ryan's tone tubby 300 dollar speaker. And assorted other mods to the circuit.

I am hoping the tubes will do it, some said some jj preamp tubes will make all the difference


but how do you guys feel about it.

do you simply buy what sounds good in the store and never think about mods?
is a lot of it guys picking the wrong tool for the job, and using fender/boutique clean amps with 400 dollar drive pedals expecting a marshall sound?

I feel when you aren't making a decent amount of money it's hard to plunge headfirst into 100 dollar mods without knowing the outcome

I haven't read any of your replies. So my reply is only a reply for your original post.

First of all I don't understand what you are trying to show us with your clips. There were two clips on the first link. Both sounding very much like how a Fender sounds like.
The clip of Ryan just sounded crappy. The quality is terrible and it's impossible to tell how his amp sounds like.
Do you know what pedals he uses?

Secondly, very much of the tone lies within the player. I bet that if Ryan Adams would come visit you and play your guitar and amp he would sound just as good as he usually does.
And why strive after sounding like someone else in the first place? Why not try to find your tone?
You as a player is unique, just as you as an human being are.
If you are going to keep searching to find Ryan Adams tone you will end up searching forever, 'cause no mods will make you sound like him. Although if you spend years trying to play like him, you might learn to sound very similar.

When people are talking about 'nailing' a Jimi Hendrix tone, what do they use? A Fender strat and a Superlead Plexi right?
Thing is that Jimi mostly used Fender in the studio, and it's quite easy to hear that as well.
My point is that some people believe that they 'nail' this or that tone. Maybe they just think they do 'cause they have the same gear (even though it might be the wrong gear), and maybe they simply doesn't turn on that song again and compare.
How many times haven't I heard about someone 'nailing' a Black Sabbath tone.. and failed. Toni Iommis tone on those first albums wasn't that impressive to begin with..


Then another thing to this is: If you're comparing your recorded tone to Ryans recorded tone, you're even more way off, as the people who records him are professionals and uses the best recording gear there is. We're talking very expensive stuff here.

And to give my opinion on the question of the topic:
Modify your amps all you want, as long as you keep in mind that the second hand value will more or less decrease by doing it, depending on what mod we're talking about.
If you have reason to believe that replacing a speaker, or tube or whatever would enhance your tone, a tone that would sound better for you, then go for it.

[flea]

I'm not against it, but I find it easier to find something you like as is. I also don't worry about nailing this or that tone, I just find tones that sound good to me, and get it ballpark. You can worry about it till it becomes more important than what's actually important, the music.