continuation of the vinyl vs. cd thread

[hithere]

hey guys awhile back I posted a thread about the comparison of vinyl and cd format, which led to a lot of great information, followed by me deciding that the music was still the most important factor.

last night I got a hold of a full quality vinyl rip of Radiohead's OK Computer and compared it to my cd version.

now to simply not start this thread off as a super audiophile thread I just want to say that this is just my general gatherings, and I am not going to try and back my opinions/findings with false technical information (because I am not well versed on the technical side)

plus I am sure a lot of you guys out there have been exposed to vinyl more than I have so this thread won't probably be any suprise.

The first thing I noticed was that from listening to cd's the majority of my life, it was hard to tell what exactly was different it first, I knew there was something but it was hard to pinpoint.

After getting to some of the tracks I was more familiar with I begin to realize that while listening at loud levels the vinyl seemed to be a little less fatiguing/shrill sounding than the cd. Especially noticeable on some crash cymbal hits.

I am going to use the dreaded word "warmth" but I definitely feel it was there. Enough to go crazy about? I guess that is up to the listener but I am glad I have my own opinion of it now after hearing a comparison. I am kind of puzzled though how the rips quality is so great, the vinyl hiss is very low and hardly takes away from the experience like I have heard from other players. That being said I was listening through a computer and recording headphones, so a different vibe I suppose.

I feel though the whole argument of what is better can be put to rest by a good listen, I think both obviously doesn't detract from the listening experience, and what is probably pleasing my ear in the vinyl version is the inaccurate nature of the eq/slight crunch and give it has, compared to the more perfect pristine cd.

Hearing the "For a minute there I lost myself" section through vinyl was pretty rad, and it was definitely enough for me to look into some players in the future.

[Neiloler]

Nothing wrong with either for me I guess, I just can't fit a vinyl player in my pocket to walk around at school to and from classes with.

[Ohara]

I mostly remember the coolness (thought it was at the time) of sitting and listening to the album, while looking at the record sleeve. I believe if you look at the sleeve from Iron Maiden's Somewhere in Time it has something from everyone of thier albums in the artwork on the cover. As far as the listening experience goes, it has honestly been so long since I listened to vinyl that I couldn't possibly give a respectable opinion, but should sit down and take the time to listen to my old albums just collecting dust.
And I still have the billion dollar bill, from my copy of Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies album

[macahan]

recently i've been wondering the same and what i've figured out is that it's almost the same difference in "attack" (if it's the appropriate term) between vinyl/cd as in tube/SS. The cd is sharper while the vinyl is smoother in the transitions which gives a more "airey" sound. Not as direct as on a CD. It's not very noticable but it's there and it's probably the reason why vinyl seems warmer to me. I prefer cd and vinyl in different situations but today i mainly listen to vinyl.

[otek]

last night I got a hold of a full quality vinyl rip of Radiohead's OK Computer and compared it to my cd version.

You just knew I was gonna jump in here, right?

The thing here of course is that it's a bit of a moving target. Turntable quality will matter, and the fact that it's a "rip" means you are still listening to a digital source at the end of the day. You're not gonna get a perfectly just comparison unless you are listening to the vinyl directly.

I listen to a lot of music from my computer, iPod and CD player, so I am no "absolutist". I still think vinyl often has an edge sonically. I'm not gonna argue it from a standpoint of practicality of course, which is one of the chief arguments that people tend to bring up.


otek

[Taronja]

a "rip" of anything sounds like crap. not even worth comparing it to anything but another "rip" but then whats the point of that?

cd are cd's and vinyl is, well vinyl!!!

i don't get it???? what are we looking for here?

many folks that are REALLY into collecting music have a nice CD collection then they have there collection of vinyl. lots of rare valuables mixed into it as-well. i think the idea of the CD to a vinyl collector is the convenience of it, you can't play a record in the car?

Jon

[hithere]

yeah well my attraction to vinyl coming from the digital age is basically the artwork and having to go out of your way to listen to an album all the way through.

cd of course great, and the only way most of the time.

I was looking at it from a sound quality standpoint, and using either exclusively is rather foolish.

and yeah otek and Jon I figured that fact that it was a rip would not be the most accurate, but I have read some people prefer some of the vinyl versions so much that they rip it to their computer. So I guess you can say I kind of defeated the purpose by listening to a digital version of a vinyl. I believe the whole album comes in at about a gig though on this version.

But what I could hear was a difference, and I figured that maybe for any younger guys out there from the cd age they may be interested. I know I am definitely curious to go out and try some turntables.

The rip though really has me wondering if they cleaned it up digitally as far as pops and cracks go, there is hardly any!

[Taronja]

The rip though really has me wondering if they cleaned it up digitally as far as pops and cracks go, there is hardly any!

"pops and cracks" on a really pristine record is from dust, so get it real clean/fresh needle and rip away, for minimal pops and cracks.

Jon

[otek]

and yeah otek and Jon I figured that fact that it was a rip would not be the most accurate

The main point is that it defeats making a comparison to highlight the strengths of the medium, since those strengths are compromised by the fact that you are not listening to analog source.

It will of course still sound different, perhaps even better.


otek

[Neiloler]

I still get plenty of inspiration out of listening to my iPod. It's the ol' "analog vs. digital" debate rearing its ugly head again, and I argue that neither one is right or wrong, it just depends on your requirements of application and demands for performance.

In the end, just go listen to music. haha

[Le Chat Noir]

I'm sorry, no offence meant to the original poster, but listening to an mp3 rip of a vinyl to try and see the difference between the two media is, sadly, totally missing the point.

The main difference between digital and analog is that an analog sound signal is a constant, effectively with infinite points. Converting this constant wave to a digital signal reduces that coinstant to a series of points - 44,100 samples per second in the case of a CD. Each of those samples is rendered with a certain accuracy, 16-bit in the case of a CD, which means each sample is rendered with a value that is one of 65,536 possible values. A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform - no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog - it can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion.

The upshot of all this is that, whether you can hear it or not, the signal has been degraded by conversion to mp3. As soon as you've converted your analog source to a digital medium - as in the case of ripping to WAV, then downgrading further to mp3 - you've already lost any objectivity in your comparison. All you're now hearing is the difference between two different digital sound files, one which has gone from tape mix->CD->mp3 vs tape mix->vinyl->WAV->mp3. Both signals are gonig to be so degraded, you can't possibly judge CD vs vinyl on their evidence. The main difference will now be that the version intended for vinyl will have been mastered differently at the tape->vinyl stage to account for the differences in media, and the conversion from vinyl to mp3 will have added artifacts.

[hithere]

hey neil definitely agree on it all comes back to the music. I didn't want to start a debate, more happy to have a reference for myself then I did.

and Teddy I got it in a lossless flac file, so they aren't compressed at all. But I still figure it is losing something, since it was converted digitally. It takes up around a gig on my computer, so it definitely is a huge amount of space for one album, and by the sound quality I'd like to believe it sounds good. It's definitely the farthest you can get from mp3s,

but yeah thanks for the insight guys, the whole thing that I just wanted to share is that both formats are really cool and I am excited to listen to vinyl in the future on a real table!

[Le Chat Noir]

and Teddy I got it in a lossless flac file, so they aren't compressed at all. But I still figure it is losing something, since it was converted digitally. It takes up around a gig on my computer, so it definitely is a huge amount of space for one album, and by the sound quality I'd like to believe it sounds good. It's definitely the farthest you can get from mp3s,

Sorry, I misread it - flac is obviously better better, but still the problem persists... if you're not litening to it with an all-analog chain, you are not getting the 'benefits' of vinyl... you're merely hearing a digitised reduction of what was originally an analog wave, just like when you play a CD. Sure, it'll sound different because of how it was mixed, and the little variations in the vinyl when it was ripped - but it won't sound the same as hearing the original vinyl played 'live'.

However, please don't think I'm some kind of analog snob! Personally, all my recording is done digitally and I'm 100% happy with it! I'm only speaking in terms of objectively comparing vinyl to CD. I'm saying these things because I think there are a lot of myths and misconceptions about analog vs digital, and understanding the differences is an important part of learning to appreciate both.

[not_again]

I am old and love vinyl over digital any day.
It seems warmer, I enjoy the bass response better and
I just find it a much more pleasant experience....

All my humble opinion of course.

At my age there's no telling what I know anymore!

[hithere]

no problem teddy! you are really helping me out along with everyone. so after hearing this replication, I am off to listen to it through a real analog chain when I can find someone with a good system/afford one.


all's I can say is I look forward to learning more about it and having an alternative format to get into.

Really I just am so into the large albums and artwork! I think most people will agree, or at least music lovers here, that in this day in age, music isn't tangible anymore, I want to be able to hold and appreciate my music!