Music Theory - Does it matter?

Van Cleef · Post by **Van Cleef** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:19 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RockerAIC
 [quote]

I think it's very difficult to have your own lead style that is unique and identifiable. And good as well. If you can do that, you really have something.
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agreed - i think that's why I like J so much - - he noodles but he sure doesn't noodle like anybody else

MaxRossell · Post by **MaxRossell** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:44 am

Is music theory important for being a good musician? Sure, but in the sense that knowing how to build a car will make you a better driver.

It's a tiny and far from unavoidable part of becoming a musician. I made it through fifteen years of my life being a musician who knew next to zero theory, I got a degree in music and a publishing deal, I scored three films and several plays, I've written radio jingles, I've even taught guitar, all without any real understanding of what a mode is.

Now I know, and yes, I think it will help me improve my playing. But it didn't matter that I didn't know before. I could list a load of amazing musicians who barely know the names of chords. I could list another load of amazing musicians who know all the theory there is to know back to front. Are the first group any better or worse off than the second one? Clearly not.

One thing I will say, though, is that in my personal experience those who focus on ear training and creative experience progress a lot faster as musicians than those who spend time figuring out how to add a load of letters and numbers together, and I think this is because figuring out what sounds right and good to you by yourself will always give you a higher quality of knowledge and understanding than learning a set of "rules".

Oranges and Lemons · Post by **Oranges and Lemons** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:02 am

It sure couldn't hurt.

adamanteus · Post by **adamanteus** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:34 am

i guess my biggest problem with a lot of theory heavy guys is that everyhting comes across as very mathmatical. in my opinion it turns their music into a cold scientific thing. everything has to be done correctly. and yes i've also known a ton of guys who knew every chord, note, progression, scale and could play anyone else's tune but, not create their own to save their lives. i know there's guys that are very technical that don't necessarily turn everything into a cold science. but, there are a lot of other guys who play based on ear, gut and emotion not worrying if a musician in the crowd will scoff at them. they do everything incorrectly yet, they're the most amazing and unique and all the theory guys clamor to figure out and classify and mathmatically analyze and recreate their style.

CD9266 · Post by **CD9266** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:41 am

Okay first I'll start off defending Steve Vai. He's the "guitar acrobatics" when he performs, but take a look at the backing band that plays and the parts that he wrote for them...

Music Theory - It can help you, but all the music theory in the world can't give you a hit song. Being able to write a song that touches people is more important. If you can relate to people, and put a nice groove/beat/whatever behind it then it can inspire people and they'll sit and listen to it over and over.

I have a notebook that has 2 pages in it that have notes on it. The rest I rip out of the back for song ideas and note names. Here are the contents of those first 2 pages.
- Keys A minor/major, B minor/major, C minor/major, D minor/major, E minor/major, F minor/major, G minor/major.
- A layout of the first 12 frets on all six strings, and what note is at each fret.
- My Orange amps settings (which I modify sometimes, more gain for fluidity, less for crunch, and EQ accordingly...

These keys help me with my structure to have my songs be "in tune" with themselves so to speak. The keys are also the scales as well (give or take pentatonic's). I use the Keys for my structural composition. I often invent my own chords and they probably have names too but I've come across a few that I couldn't figure out what they were, even with the help of the internet. For leads and solos everything on the fretboard (and some things not) is fair game.

ESBlonde · Post by **ESBlonde** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:13 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaxRossell
 
One thing I will say, though, is that in my personal experience those who focus on ear training and creative experience progress a lot faster as musicians than those who spend time figuring out how to add a load of letters and numbers together, and I think this is because figuring out what sounds right and good to you by yourself will always give you a higher quality of knowledge and understanding than learning a set of "rules".
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

+1
Some good points made throughout this thread and I'd like to add this.
Theory (and the written score) are ways to communicate musical ideas to other musicians - they do not communicate anything to your average audience.
Learning by ear was the way for 'pop' groups during the 60's and 70's because there was little or nothing readily available in print. But just about all of those artists and writers were influenced but people who did have theory down pat.
Liking and playing a particular style is great, but one day you may well get tired of it and desire to break out of that box, so developing your chops should include theory, practice and diverse styles to improve your playing.

I never learned to read the dots, or the theory from a book, by the time I considered that I was an accomplished player covering a fairly diverse range of styles and getting dep work with local bands regularly. I think it would be nice to read sometimes and would help get some work for sessions or theatre or caberet or whatever which although not always my favourite musical style, does get me playing with some class musicians. Give me a score and a couple of days and I can work it out and play it but sight read

er no!

My 0.02

Musicman20 · Post by **Musicman20** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:23 am

I can't handle massive tech guitar parts. Unless its something completely mad like Dillinger Escape Plan/Converge etc....then I kinda think the theory side is being over done. Vai doesn't do it for me; Im much more of a Frusciante (sp?!) fan.

My advice....take some of the theory in, but try not to change your way of writing songs. Natural talent and an 'ear' for a melody is much more entertaining to hear/watch. I did take real bass lessons off a proper Jazz bassists who also storms on double bass. He was pretty smart on guitar too. I also took GCSE music WAYYYYY back 11 years ago, and I got an A by using my ear, writing and recording a few melodic punk songs, and playing a jazz bassline live with my bass tutor who played guitar. I have no idea how I got through the theory side of it.

bassdrop · Post by **bassdrop** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:02 pm

Theory is just a groundwork of knowledge that has been established in the Western tradition of music. There are other theories of music from places like West Africa, India, etc. which are completely different not only musically but in terms of their place in that culture. Like any other set of knowledge, it really depends upon what you take to it and what you bring away from it. Consider that the same knowledge set can be applied to creating a nuclear reactor for a power plant or a nuclear warhead for an ICBM. These differences in application are not coincidental, they depend entirely on the person using that knowledge.

As such, you should always ground yourself in the knowledge that most music sucks, whether the people involved know music theory or not, and that using tools such as knowledge of music theory will only help you if you also have the wisdom to apply them properly. We should all be striving to make music suck less every day.

Drdos · Post by **Drdos** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:06 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by adamanteus
 i guess my biggest problem with a lot of theory heavy guys is that everyhting comes across as very mathmatical. in my opinion it turns their music into a cold scientific thing. everything has to be done correctly. and yes i've also known a ton of guys who knew every chord, note, progression, scale and could play anyone else's tune but, not create their own to save their lives. i know there's guys that are very technical that don't necessarily turn everything into a cold science. but, there are a lot of other guys who play based on ear, gut and emotion not worrying if a musician in the crowd will scoff at them. they do everything incorrectly yet, they're the most amazing and unique and all the theory guys clamor to figure out and classify and mathmatically analyze and recreate their style.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's because Music Theory is based on Mathematics... I think you guys are all on the right track here. Polarizing to one side or the other whether you are a performer with a great ear, or a master of musical theory I don't think make a either individual a stronger musician. One becomes a great guitar player/performer the other teaches music theory for a living and composes A Tonal Minimalist musical scores that very few listen to.

But, I still feel that developing both skills is really essential for helping to build Strong Musicians. The development of ones Ear (saturating or surrounding yourself with music for the development of your ear) is just as important as the technical understanding of how and why music is structured the way it is..

blackcloud45 · Post by **blackcloud45** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:15 pm

[/quote]

Theory does not equal songwriting skill like you said. If you go too into theory and technicality you end up like Dream Theater, which is a band that essentially plays for musicians and does things just to satisfy their own desire to keep things interesting.
[/quote]

I agree w/ this and would like to add Mr. Big. Here you have a group of very talented musicians. The songs are middle of the road at best.

The other problem w/ very technical playing is that for the most part is inaccessible to the common consumer. It's too good for the sake of being too good and most regular people can't relate so the technical aspect does indeed become a novelty.

bassdrop · Post by **bassdrop** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:09 pm

One of the things lost over the years in terms of classical musician training were the concepts of ear training and improvisation. These overlooked areas were originally necessary in the days of the great composers as a soloist was expected to improvise. Being able to play by ear will get you just much as work as learning to sight-read, which is nearly impossible on guitar in any case. Bass- not as big of a deal since you generally only have one note at a time to worry about. The only worse case for sight-reading is piano and organ parts.

Blainy · Post by **Blainy** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:25 pm

Is this thread the perfect opportunity for forum members to disappear up their own back passages?

Technique is the practical application of theory? Bulls---.

Nuff said....last time I look at this thread.

Bluz57 · Post by **Bluz57** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:13 am

I have studied theory with some great jazz musicians.I like playing jazz,but my heart is in blues.I have a good ear,and that is what I rely on most of the time.I am not a technician.I play the blues because it is fun.

Van Cleef · Post by **Van Cleef** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:21 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Blainy
 Is this thread the perfect opportunity for forum members to disappear up their own back passages?

Technique is the practical application of theory? Bulls---.

Nuff said....last time I look at this thread.
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how's the view down that passage?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_technique

bassdrop · Post by **bassdrop** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:44 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Blainy
 Is this thread the perfect opportunity for forum members to disappear up their own back passages?

Technique is the practical application of theory? Bulls---.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not sure whose disappearing up whose back passage here[:0] but I totally disagree with the second statement as well and don't know from where it was gleaned. Technique and/or theory are means to an end. The end being music. If it doesn't sound good then it really doesn't matter what techniques are used or from which aspect of theory it is derived. Theory and technique do not specify good taste in the same way that science does not specify morals.

Music Theory - Does it matter?

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