THIS is a real serious issue out there in the music playing world that must be addressed.
I have the same issue with my singer/rhythm guitar player. He too got a Vox Valvetronix and doesn't know how to use it. I purposely play slightly louder to mask this. He hasn't read the manual, doesn't use the footswitch and I have yet to hear it clean. He just throws on some flange distortion doodad and plays.
They should have therapy clinics for people like this...
Why Don't People Learn How To Use Gear?
Moderator: bclaire
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CustomsLou
- Orange Master
- Posts: 2332
- Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:38 pm
- Location: USA
Yes, there are technophobes and the technically astute, but there is also a third kind, which is what I was describing.
Those that want to use technology but don't know how, and instead of learning how to use it, blame the technology, or the person that sold it to them, or the company that built it.
The moron that I was describing has a history of buying guitars, basses, amps, and pedals and returning them because he thinks that they're defective.
He refuses to even consider that he doesn't know what he's doing- he blames the gear.
That is far worse than someone that doesn't know how to use something but doesn't become a pain in the arse because he's happy with what he has and what he's doing.
This jerk is a blight on the music scene, and the human race, because he is a headache wherever he goes.
Hopefully he stays out of the reproducing gene pool.
Those that want to use technology but don't know how, and instead of learning how to use it, blame the technology, or the person that sold it to them, or the company that built it.
The moron that I was describing has a history of buying guitars, basses, amps, and pedals and returning them because he thinks that they're defective.
He refuses to even consider that he doesn't know what he's doing- he blames the gear.
That is far worse than someone that doesn't know how to use something but doesn't become a pain in the arse because he's happy with what he has and what he's doing.
This jerk is a blight on the music scene, and the human race, because he is a headache wherever he goes.
Hopefully he stays out of the reproducing gene pool.
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a.hun
- Duke of Orange
- Posts: 9765
- Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
- Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by CustomsLou</i>
<br />Yes, there are technophobes and the technically astute, but there is also a third kind, which is what I was describing.
Those that want to use technology but don't know how, and instead of learning how to use it, blame the technology, or the person that sold it to them, or the company that built it.
The moron that I was describing has a history of buying guitars, basses, amps, and pedals and returning them because he thinks that they're defective.
He refuses to even consider that he doesn't know what he's doing- he blames the gear.
That is far worse than someone that doesn't know how to use something but doesn't become a pain in the arse because he's happy with what he has and what he's doing.
This jerk is a blight on the music scene, and the human race, because he is a headache wherever he goes.
<b>Hopefully he stays out of the reproducing gene pool.</b>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Clearly from the shallow end!!!
Andy.
<br />Yes, there are technophobes and the technically astute, but there is also a third kind, which is what I was describing.
Those that want to use technology but don't know how, and instead of learning how to use it, blame the technology, or the person that sold it to them, or the company that built it.
The moron that I was describing has a history of buying guitars, basses, amps, and pedals and returning them because he thinks that they're defective.
He refuses to even consider that he doesn't know what he's doing- he blames the gear.
That is far worse than someone that doesn't know how to use something but doesn't become a pain in the arse because he's happy with what he has and what he's doing.
This jerk is a blight on the music scene, and the human race, because he is a headache wherever he goes.
<b>Hopefully he stays out of the reproducing gene pool.</b>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Clearly from the shallow end!!!
Andy.
aNDyH. 
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
Andy - in my opinion, the guy you were describing was <i>not a good musician</i> or anyone I'd want to play with, no matter how great a player he might be. Regardless of the great guitar skills he had, understanding your gear and the effect it has on your overall sound and contribution to the musicality of your group is part of <i>being a good musician</i>. If you've got great technical chops or perfect pitch, or incredible phrasing or all of the above...it just doesn't matter if you won't tune up or you're a complete dunderhead in terms of being able to use your gear effectively. If that's the case, you lower the musicality of the rest of the band.
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a.hun
- Duke of Orange
- Posts: 9765
- Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
- Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by LeonC</i>
<br />Andy - in my opinion, the guy you were describing was <i>not a good musician</i> or anyone I'd want to play with, no matter how great a player he might be. Regardless of the great guitar skills he had, understanding your gear and the effect it has on your overall sound and contribution to the musicality of your group is part of <i>being a good musician</i>. If you've got great technical chops or perfect pitch, or incredible phrasing or all of the above...it just doesn't matter if you won't tune up or you're a complete dunderhead in terms of being able to use your gear effectively. If that's the case, you lower the musicality of the rest of the band.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Totally take your points. But tell the paying punters he wasn't a good musician...!
In fact tell that to the other guys in the band. They were all good, and IMO he was a <u>very</u> good musician. He contributed a huge amount to our band musically. Lovely guy too. He was just totally not into his gear. Kind of like he thought all that was a necessary evil!!!
Like I said I'd often stand admiring his playing while playing bass myself. Being a musician isn't about being a totally rounded human being. Check out the histories of plenty of prima donnas from all eras. It isn't just a modern rock and roll music thing! Luckily he wasn't like that at all!
But yes, in an ideal world I totally agree you wouldn't have to tune other peoples guitars to concert pitch for them. Even back then it wasn't something I would ever do lightly, but musically IMO it was well worth the very minimal hardship of a tune up and quick glance at the amp. Because other than that the guy was totally undemanding and yes he contributed a whole lot musically. And frankly I was in that band for the music myself. I learned more from that bunch of guys than about any I've worked with before or since...
Hey, it is all just opinions here. I don't see it as an 'I'm right you're wrong' scenario...
Andy.
<br />Andy - in my opinion, the guy you were describing was <i>not a good musician</i> or anyone I'd want to play with, no matter how great a player he might be. Regardless of the great guitar skills he had, understanding your gear and the effect it has on your overall sound and contribution to the musicality of your group is part of <i>being a good musician</i>. If you've got great technical chops or perfect pitch, or incredible phrasing or all of the above...it just doesn't matter if you won't tune up or you're a complete dunderhead in terms of being able to use your gear effectively. If that's the case, you lower the musicality of the rest of the band.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Totally take your points. But tell the paying punters he wasn't a good musician...!
In fact tell that to the other guys in the band. They were all good, and IMO he was a <u>very</u> good musician. He contributed a huge amount to our band musically. Lovely guy too. He was just totally not into his gear. Kind of like he thought all that was a necessary evil!!!
Like I said I'd often stand admiring his playing while playing bass myself. Being a musician isn't about being a totally rounded human being. Check out the histories of plenty of prima donnas from all eras. It isn't just a modern rock and roll music thing! Luckily he wasn't like that at all!
But yes, in an ideal world I totally agree you wouldn't have to tune other peoples guitars to concert pitch for them. Even back then it wasn't something I would ever do lightly, but musically IMO it was well worth the very minimal hardship of a tune up and quick glance at the amp. Because other than that the guy was totally undemanding and yes he contributed a whole lot musically. And frankly I was in that band for the music myself. I learned more from that bunch of guys than about any I've worked with before or since...
Hey, it is all just opinions here. I don't see it as an 'I'm right you're wrong' scenario...
Andy.
aNDyH.
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
Yeah, of course, I don't mean this in a "someone is right/someone is wrong" way, I'm just expressing an opinion, based on the info in your earlier description. If I was there and knew the guy and experienced things the way you did, I might very well feel the same way...or maybe not. I don't really know. But based on the notion that someone won't tune up, doesn't pay attention to how loud they're playing (and may be blowing everyone else off the stage), doesn't pay attention to the fact that their gear is malfunctioning and sounding god-awful, my feeling was...well...as I described it.
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a.hun
- Duke of Orange
- Posts: 9765
- Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
- Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl
Just to <i>try</i> to give you more of an idea where I'm coming from though... [:p]
If we were talking about a trumpet player instead of an electric guitarist, then the whole technology thing wouldn't apply, right? Their musicianship wouldn't be dependant on being particularly technologically sussed.
So why exactly should a blues guy who happens to play electric guitar, only needs one great sound from his amp, and just uses one pedal at one setting for leads be intrinsically less of a musician than people like ourselves who can and do sit and discuss different speaker / amp combinations etc etc at great length? Is it the technical know how which makes the musician? I just don't see it that way myself.
Is a great singer only really a great singer if they know how to set up the vocal PA for every hall they play? Don't think so. Why exactly should that be any different???
Sure, you need people who know how to set up and maintain the gear. But being able to do all that doesn't make the musician IMO. Thats exactly why I have a lot of time for those less caught up in the technicalities of gear than myself. They often just want to make music, and I spend a fair bit of time here trying to get them back doing exactly that. I don't see that as time wasted!
Sure I find messing about with different amps really addictive, but there is only any point if I can actually do something useful with them. They are a means to an end, and the end is the music.
I've been occasionally going along to a great jam session my wife and I discovered a few months back. I find it so refreshing to be able to turn up, tune up, plug in, and start making music with other musicians. THATS what it is really about for me. Doesn't mean I don't like using my own rig or any such, but that is less important to me than simply getting out there and letting my fingers talk.
Make any sense?
Andy.
PS. Edit: Thinking about it, one of the things that makes it such a good session is that basically 'most everything is laid on. Great PA, people who know how to use it. I wouldn't even need to take a bass as there is a <u>very</u> decent Tokai 'P' laid on. Ditto acoustic and electric guitars, drums, vocal / instrument mics. Of course I'm sure anyone who abused any of the gear wouldn't play twice, but the other thing I really like about it is that it attracts some outstanding musicians...
If we were talking about a trumpet player instead of an electric guitarist, then the whole technology thing wouldn't apply, right? Their musicianship wouldn't be dependant on being particularly technologically sussed.
So why exactly should a blues guy who happens to play electric guitar, only needs one great sound from his amp, and just uses one pedal at one setting for leads be intrinsically less of a musician than people like ourselves who can and do sit and discuss different speaker / amp combinations etc etc at great length? Is it the technical know how which makes the musician? I just don't see it that way myself.
Is a great singer only really a great singer if they know how to set up the vocal PA for every hall they play? Don't think so. Why exactly should that be any different???
Sure, you need people who know how to set up and maintain the gear. But being able to do all that doesn't make the musician IMO. Thats exactly why I have a lot of time for those less caught up in the technicalities of gear than myself. They often just want to make music, and I spend a fair bit of time here trying to get them back doing exactly that. I don't see that as time wasted!
Sure I find messing about with different amps really addictive, but there is only any point if I can actually do something useful with them. They are a means to an end, and the end is the music.
I've been occasionally going along to a great jam session my wife and I discovered a few months back. I find it so refreshing to be able to turn up, tune up, plug in, and start making music with other musicians. THATS what it is really about for me. Doesn't mean I don't like using my own rig or any such, but that is less important to me than simply getting out there and letting my fingers talk.
Make any sense?
Andy.
PS. Edit: Thinking about it, one of the things that makes it such a good session is that basically 'most everything is laid on. Great PA, people who know how to use it. I wouldn't even need to take a bass as there is a <u>very</u> decent Tokai 'P' laid on. Ditto acoustic and electric guitars, drums, vocal / instrument mics. Of course I'm sure anyone who abused any of the gear wouldn't play twice, but the other thing I really like about it is that it attracts some outstanding musicians...
aNDyH.
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
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a.hun
- Duke of Orange
- Posts: 9765
- Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 1:05 am
- Location: Amsterdam, Hollandland.nl
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by LeonC</i>
<br />Yeah, of course, I don't mean this in a "someone is right/someone is wrong" way, I'm just expressing an opinion, based on the info in your earlier description. If I was there and knew the guy and experienced things the way you did, I might very well feel the same way...or maybe not. I don't really know. But based on the notion that someone won't tune up, doesn't pay attention to how loud they're playing (and may be blowing everyone else off the stage), doesn't pay attention to the fact that their gear is malfunctioning and sounding god-awful, my feeling was...well...as I described it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Totally understand!
He <i>was</i> pretty deaf you know. He'd been doing it a long time! (Should maybe have pointed that out.)
Andy.
<br />Yeah, of course, I don't mean this in a "someone is right/someone is wrong" way, I'm just expressing an opinion, based on the info in your earlier description. If I was there and knew the guy and experienced things the way you did, I might very well feel the same way...or maybe not. I don't really know. But based on the notion that someone won't tune up, doesn't pay attention to how loud they're playing (and may be blowing everyone else off the stage), doesn't pay attention to the fact that their gear is malfunctioning and sounding god-awful, my feeling was...well...as I described it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Totally understand!
He <i>was</i> pretty deaf you know. He'd been doing it a long time! (Should maybe have pointed that out.)
Andy.
aNDyH.
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
Ever tried to outstare a mirror?
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap, and much more difficult to find!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ESBlonde</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nguideau</i>
<br />Definitely, this is why I just like to plug straight into the amp and play. Occasionally will use an OD or fuzz, but no massive pedal boards for me. Just a tuner.
Now I know a lot of guys on here use pedal boards... I'm not insulting pedal boards... if anything I'm saying that I'm just too simple and don't want to do all the work to figure out the best sequences/etc. to get things sounding right!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I know where you're comming from. When I started I only had guitar and amp (not that there were many effects then Wah, fuzz, reverb, echo then phase). As the years progressed I learned that to be a more versatile player and effects became better and more affordable as well as having mains adaptors
I found I would end up with good effects but typically use only one setting per pedal as a great sound and just combine pedals to suit. This made live work easier so you could concentrate on playing and not tweaking. Somehow OD pedals seem the hardest to get right as guitar gain changes them.
Anyway I do have a reasonable amount of FX on a board, but home and rehearsal are just guitar into amp which is the best pure tone
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I only plan to use a few effects and only ever did use a few effects. Chorus, Delay, and Tremolo were the ones I used, and I wouldn't use them all the time. I started my effects on my Peavey EFX 100 head when I bought that after it was discontinued on Ebay, now it's a practice amp and I understand (years later now) how to use it's effects more effectively (namely delay).
Moved onto a Vox Tonelab SE and while I don't use it anymore, it did speak to me that effects are not evil, you just have to understand how to use them, and to make them sound good and not over use them unless that is the intention for that <b>song</b>. Now I'm trying to build up a new pedalboard of individual effects that I've used in the past and I'll be happy with my setup.
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nguideau</i>
<br />Definitely, this is why I just like to plug straight into the amp and play. Occasionally will use an OD or fuzz, but no massive pedal boards for me. Just a tuner.
Now I know a lot of guys on here use pedal boards... I'm not insulting pedal boards... if anything I'm saying that I'm just too simple and don't want to do all the work to figure out the best sequences/etc. to get things sounding right!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I know where you're comming from. When I started I only had guitar and amp (not that there were many effects then Wah, fuzz, reverb, echo then phase). As the years progressed I learned that to be a more versatile player and effects became better and more affordable as well as having mains adaptors
I found I would end up with good effects but typically use only one setting per pedal as a great sound and just combine pedals to suit. This made live work easier so you could concentrate on playing and not tweaking. Somehow OD pedals seem the hardest to get right as guitar gain changes them.
Anyway I do have a reasonable amount of FX on a board, but home and rehearsal are just guitar into amp which is the best pure tone
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I only plan to use a few effects and only ever did use a few effects. Chorus, Delay, and Tremolo were the ones I used, and I wouldn't use them all the time. I started my effects on my Peavey EFX 100 head when I bought that after it was discontinued on Ebay, now it's a practice amp and I understand (years later now) how to use it's effects more effectively (namely delay).
Moved onto a Vox Tonelab SE and while I don't use it anymore, it did speak to me that effects are not evil, you just have to understand how to use them, and to make them sound good and not over use them unless that is the intention for that <b>song</b>. Now I'm trying to build up a new pedalboard of individual effects that I've used in the past and I'll be happy with my setup.
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