OH WHAT TONE - PART 2!

joefrost01 · Post by **joefrost01** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:08 pm

Hmmm...

See, I hear what you're saying about rap and hip-hop but this is the same genre that gave us Sabotage by the Beastie Boys and influenced Tom Morello.

Sure there's a lot of dross floating around but there are also some gems.

chinese fork tie · Post by **chinese fork tie** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:43 pm

you know, the argument could go for days. the problem isn't hip hop. the problem is that the majority of the music buying masses are complacent and totally willing to be spoonfed whatever puerile trash gets shat out their radio. just as with rock music, there's a lot of horrible stuff out there. but if you actually make an effort to look for the gems, there are some absolutely amazing rappers out there, people who are saying very intelligent, thought-provoking things and doing it very well. need i mention the roots, who, in addition to making some of the best hip hop of the mid-late 90's were also one of the best funk bands you could hope to catch in any city on any night? or i could talk about tupac shakur, who got a lot of flak for 'glorifying' the ghetto/thug lifestyle, though in all his music and poetry, the message was obvious that he was trying to steer his listeners away from that lifestyle.

the people who are buying lil wayne albums are the same people who like nickleback and hinder and all that top 40 radio-friendly crap, and most of the time, it's because they're too scared to get off the airwaves and go find some music that might challenge them a little bit.

adamanteus · Post by **adamanteus** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:00 pm

no i get what you are saying and one of my best friends, the best man at my wedding FWIW is a DJ and really into the undeground movement of it all and we always have this argument. granted not all is as terrible as the standard fare as the radio churned stuff and some of it is ok but, the argument i have with him EVERY time we get together is simply : due to the lack of instrumentation used in MOST hip-hop, and the way it is so visible, i could eventually envision a day when a kid sees a guitar for example and has absolutely no clue what the F*&ck it is! essentially the death of MUSIC. an extremist view perhaps...

so in general, it's not so much rap i hate it's the lack of real instrumentation. and i know, we can now discuss, the turntable, the voice, the sample as being instruments. and i know there are some hip-hop guys that use real instruments and i can handle that much easier- lil wayne definitely excluded it seems more of a prop to me.
and you are very right radio sucks, most mainstream music sucks and is spoon fed crap that i hate with an unbridled passion BUT, if there is at least a musician playing a real instrument somewhere on it, even though it makes my stomach churn i can handle it a bit better.

chinese fork tie · Post by **chinese fork tie** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:25 pm

i dunno, hip hop was totally eye opening for me. i was a total rocker kid all the way up through high school, and then two things happened the year after i graduated:
1. the unicorns broke up.
2. the arcade fire came out and everyone said i would like them. then i saw them live and got really pissed off that they were even allowed to release records.

around the same time (actually a few months before), i'd started to get bored with all the music i was listening to and went out to pick up some music that i hadn't really explored before. ended up coming home with a hank williams LP, some wu-tang, funkadelic and some other stuff. i couldn't get enough. as i started searching around, i found the definitive jux label from brookyln, who release some absolutely phenomenal stuff, started listening to a lot of mos def, and this is all at the same time i was absorbing george jones and gram parsons and spending my saturdays getting stoned and listening to talking heads LPs. and i started to notice that really with good music, the elements are all the same, it's just a matter of how they're used. hip hop i view more as a spoken word thing, which is actually where it started.

stevo2112 · Post by **stevo2112** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:37 pm

the roots and jurassic 5 (among others) put on great live shows.

i'll agree that most mtv rap is garbage though.

crash · Post by **crash** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:18 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Neiloler
 I'd take an Emily the Strange SG, it's not the graphics I have a hard time with, it's the headstock shape on Epis.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ha ha... plus one!

Neiloler · Post by **Neiloler** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:39 pm

I can respect the "spoken word" aspect of Hip Hop. Still not my fav thing, but it does have some interesting poetic elements to it, and again, true art is presenting emotions through a medium, and Lil Wayne doesn't present any emotions that I think are real or worth taking the time to explore.

Haha, I like Arcade Fire though, their album "Neon Bible" is a great commentary on anti-commercial-westernism, and very interestingly presented.

adamanteus · Post by **adamanteus** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:32 pm

this is a good forum. a good debate where we're not hurling insults and we actually are listening to one another's POV. here comes my boss laters!

Wendigo · Post by **Wendigo** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:53 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chinese fork tie
 i could talk about tupac shakur, who got a lot of flak for 'glorifying' the ghetto/thug lifestyle, though in all his music and poetry, the message was obvious that he was trying to steer his listeners away from that lifestyle.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I get you man, but by the same token, I could write metal songs with raging fast guitars and sing to my fans about how they should stay clear of that sort of thing. I think there is as much in the delivery as there is in the message. The very sound of hiphop promotes the lifestyle and justifies it (in the minds of the listeners) every bit as much as the sound of metal promotes mullets and jean-jackets with "Metallica" written in Bic pen on the back.

[:p]

Seriously, I dont care at all about hiphop, it's just not for me, that's all.

linoleum · Post by **linoleum** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:03 am

Ya, he had a equally awful performance on SNL!

Neiloler · Post by **Neiloler** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:06 am

Yeah, I watched that one as well. Amazingly bad. Who was the producer or stage hand that let this kid NEAR a guitar?

Doh!

Companyman · Post by **Companyman** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:33 am

Wu Tang Clan ain't nothin' to f*ck with !

jdavis · Post by **jdavis** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:23 am

Man that was just bad. Shoulda had a warning : Kids don't try this at home!

MSP · Post by **MSP** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:23 am

Although I'm not as immersed in hip hop music, I do take the same stance as chinese fork tie. If I had only listened to Fall Out Boy to get a taste of rock music, I'd hate rock music. There's a lot of great hip hop out there, unfortunately it's not forefront in the marketing of the genre, so people hear crap like this and dismiss the whole thing.

linoleum · Post by **linoleum** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:03 pm

What A Joke!
Can't Rap.
Can't Sing.
Can't Play Guitar.
Nothing Creative, Unique, Or Clever About The Lyrics.

I saw him on SNL, and literally laughed.. More of a disgusted laugh.

While rap in general isn't very instrumentally musical.. There are a few who do it well!
Like EVERY genre of music, its mostly filled with big music corp produced generic music, that will sell.
While I dont like most of that, I can see why.. young girls love nsync and brittney spears, I can see why the pretend rockers love fall out boy and the like..
And I can see why a record label rep could say.. hey this will sell to 13 year old girls.
But What record label.. see's this guy, and thinks THIS WILL SELL!
Its mind blowing, and the fact that they were right... IT WILL SELL!!!
Is even more mind blowing.
I hate the world. haha

OH WHAT TONE - PART 2!

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