another one of my tone rants/Rockerverb discussion

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hithere
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Post by hithere » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:51 am

So as all you helpful guys here know, I am always on here asking advice on what to do. I have been through quite a couple of amps, and as you guys probably also know,

I have a love for Tom Petty, and Paramore, and anything in between.

This makes it hard for me to say hey, let me go get a ric and a vox, or hey let me go get a mesa and a humbucker guitar.

I may be rocking to techno or The Fall of Troy.

When I started and had a marshall mg I was simple, crystal clean and a heavier drive tone. I always thought the clean was completely fine.

When I moved on to tube amps, I always gravitated to the twin reverb, fell in love with it, and went through a couple and have one sitting in my room now.

Of course the twin means drive pedals, and I honestly feel the drive pedals aren't for me. It seems that there is a new flavor of the week every week in the boutique world. My twin begs me to shut them off and play clean.

Above all I just went through a very scary period of thinking I had damaged my ears heavily, and the piercing tone of the twin is hard for me to get a tame drive sound in.

Anything past mild drive is harsh and just simply not what I am looking for.

I figured I would grab a marshall dsl and a/b, but realistically I don't have the money, or the means to carry two heavy amps and the cables to hook both up.

But one amp seems to keep calling me in my mind. I was thinking of going back to marshall with maybe a jvm, but I remembered the first time I played orange it was a rockerverb.

now I did play this with a beautiful anderson cobra, with coil taps, but I swore that not only was the clean channel gorgeous, in a dark way, but the drive could be turn up very much, and still be rolled back on the volume dial.

Tone has been buggin me for so long now that I need to move on.

My general thoughts are, that I might prefer that clean closed back darker sound, then my twin reverb. I know that may sound irregular, and while I love the twin, I don't have the means to carry around so much.

The drive to me sounded that if I used low output/high output pickups, and the volume knob, that I could get dynamics from just those two channels.

I was so impressed with the cobra, that with the gain at 3ish I could get aggressive, and roll right back to petty.


This is the hugest post I have ever made, but I guess I am asking, these questions

1. is the clean gorgeous in it's own way? ( I know opinion but I am leaning towards yes)
2. Effects loop tone loss problems?
3. heard it doesn't cut through the mix.
4. Am I right that I can use my Volume knob to from Sigur Ros ish to Mary Jane's last dance?

Norrin Radd
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Post by Norrin Radd » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:53 am

1. YES!
2. Some do, some don't.
3. Bollocks! If it's really a concern about hearing yourself on stage - get the open back 2x12 - it's awesome! (and cheap!!!).
4. Yep.
Greg

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Post by Van Cleef » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:07 am

band that played with us the other night - guitarist had a tele going into a fender twin... with a route 66 pedal and it sounded so good i am almost tempted to get a fender twin myself... or some kind of fender...
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Joshlespaul1952

Post by Joshlespaul1952 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:12 am

1. No.
That's all I can really say...I've never heard it in a mix, never tried the effects loop...

Norrin Radd
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Post by Norrin Radd » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:35 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Joshlespaul1952</i>
<br />1. No.
That's all I can really say...I've never heard it in a mix, never tried the effects loop...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Josh - you are the only person I know of who is of that opinion. I take my amp everywhere and I always get gushes from guitar players over the clean channel on the RV50. Unless you have spent extensive time with this amp (and tried it with all kinds of various speakers) I wish you'd stop publicly bagging on it's clean channel.

When I first got the amp (3 years or so ago) I took it to my buddies store for them to check it out. The clean channel through a single G12H30 in a Matchless 1/12 open back cab ended up selling 2 more RV50s right then.

Since you hate the clean channel so much - why don't you share your experience with it, including hours logged with different speakers? Thanks!
Greg

Joshlespaul1952

Post by Joshlespaul1952 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:12 am

Of all the people to chastise me for expressing my opinion, I did not think it would be you, Greg. I'm entitled to my opinion, as you are entitled to yours. I don't like the clean channel. Jeez. I'm sorry you're so sensitive over it, but I just don't like it.

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Post by adamanteus » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:23 am

1- i like the clean as do all the other players i've played with - no offense intended to anyone.

2- no loss of tone with FX loop here

3- BS- the closed back cabs are directional but, cutting through is not a problem

4- very versatile amp!
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Post by somedude » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:24 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by hithere</i>
<br />
This is the hugest post I have ever made, but I guess I am asking, these questions

1. is the clean gorgeous in it's own way? ( I know opinion but I am leaning towards yes)
2. Effects loop tone loss problems?
3. heard it doesn't cut through the mix.
4. Am I right that I can use my Volume knob to from Sigur Ros ish to Mary Jane's last dance?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We're talking the RV50, right? 'Cause that's the one I'm going to talk about (I've never used the RV100).

1. The cleans are alright, but not spectacular. That said, the Vintage 30 isn't a spectacular speaker for cleans. Through a different speaker the cleans should improve a lot. I actually like the clean channel, but that's because I put the gain on 7 and use it as a crunch channel. I roll my guitar's volume down if I need cleans, and I don't need Fender sounding cleans by any means.

2. Not in my experience.

3. The gain is very compressed and saturated, and at 50w it's not a lot of headroom for punching that kind of gain out in a mix. If you want to run it quite gainy it's probably not going to cut. HOWEVER, if you're willing to back off the gain and push the master volume up it gets a lot more articulate/dynamic and cuts a lot better.

4. I'm not the best guy to answer this question

Les Paul -> Electric Amp 120w MV* -> Electric 4x12 + Orange 4x12

* or a 2-ch Dual Rectifier.. depending on how I feel.


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Post by BrianGT » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:33 pm

1. Played the RV50 combo in my pals guitar store about a year ago. Didn't like the cleans at all.
Move forward a year and having learned so much on here I took it home to my studio for a proper try. Once I realised that to cut the heavy mid tone all I had to do was advance bass AND treble it really sparkled!
Also....what really swayed me was that I unhooked the Vintage 30's and plugged in to two 2x12 Matamp cabs loaded with Century Vintages...that blew me away! It sounded sensational......based on that I bought it!
I have changed the internal speakers to Century Vintages since and also run it with a third Matamp cab I have.

2. I only use delay and have had no problems with the loop.

3. I haven't gigged it yet but I play at gig volume in my studio. The dirty channel is compressed but as I don't use a lot of gain and turn the Master up it really punches.....I love Tom Petty too and I can pull off Refugee, Wreck Me, Running down a dream etc....on that channel.

4. Can't comment on that but it DOES turn down the gain really well using your volume pot on the guitar.
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TJ_Lee
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Post by TJ_Lee » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:45 pm

Dude, just dive into it and get the RV50 with a 212 open back. Thomas used one of them when they was on tour with Daughters. Still sounded like Thom, just different. It's not really the tone what matters its how you play it. I can play all of Fall of Troy's stuff with my Dr. Z and a couple of drive pedals and a humbucker guitar.
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irish_admiral
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Post by irish_admiral » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:03 pm

Hithere,

1. Best thing for you to do is decide if YOU like it. It has to fit with your sound. Is it useable? Of course. Plenty of volume and a 2 band EQ will get you most of what you want there. Beyond that, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - if you like, great.
2. Not generally. Most FX loops add a little hiss when you use them, but that's as you've suddenly added another 10,20, 30 feet of cable and some effects which might hiss! They'd do the same in front of the amp.
3. Agree with Greg here... when people say this what they really mean is either (a) it's not scooped, or (b) they're sitting in the same frequency band as someone else on the stage! You need to tailor your sound (usually) so that everyone in the band fills out the frequency spectrum and overlaps nicely. If everyone packs out the mids, then you're going to sound really 1 dimensional... unless that's the sound you're going for.
4. You can do this with most good valve amps. Not sure Sigur Ros is really an RV50 sound, but you can probably get to the same ballpark.
Joe

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Orange AD15, Matamp 1224, Fender 'JD' Tele, G&L ASAT, Duesenberg Starplayer TV, Eggle Kanuga, Avalon D25, Warwick FNA Jazzman, Eden Nemesis / Bergantino EX112S, Eastman MD305 & other stuff...

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Post by enigma » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:11 pm

I've played with RV100 for about 2 years. It's one of my favorite amps. The clean channel is so very receptive to all sorts of pedals, and the dirty channel is one of the most natural, warm yet aggressive sounding 2nd channel. That said, the clean channel by itself is its weakest link for me. So, if you like the Fender clean then RV would be a disappointment. I played RV50 and I think it has better cleans than the RV100 though it has much more headroom.

The effects loop works great. I rarely experienced any tonal loss that caused me to not use effects loop.

I had no problem cutting through the mix - I just crank it up :) My favorite combo was my RV100 through my Mesa Thiele 1x12 closed cab w/ EV speakers. This combination can cut through molasses.

One more thing. I use several guitars that have coil tap, and RVs love single coils; humbuckers are, of course, killer especially with my ES-335 and SG custom.

The key to getting various tones for me is obvious. I have all sorts of pedals for my 1st channel.
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hithere
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Post by hithere » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:21 pm

when you say the clean is a weak point for you, is it because you prefer a fender clean?

I may be ready for the change of a darker closed back clean. I like my fender but don't mind if something is different, but if something is inferior. Of course that is my decision to make though.

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Post by airforce_brian » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:22 pm

<b>Joshlespaul1952</b>: If you don't personally like the clean channel that's fine, but the correct answer to hithere's question would have been "I don't personally like the clean channel, but most agree that it is very nice", or something along those lines. You are telling this dude that the clean channel sucks, when you know most people don't feel that way about it. Not cool.

The RV50 was the first Orange amp I owned. Checking it out in the store, I absolutely loved the clean and distortion channels. Compared it to a ton of other amps and it blew everything out of the water. The clean channel with a bit of reverb is IMHO one of the best out there. The reverb comes on a little strong, so you have to keep it fairly low on the dial, but it is really lush and nice sounding. Depeding on the pickups you are using, the clean channel will start to breakup around 12:00 on the volume dial, which is prett loud.

The distortion channel is fairly versatile, and it does clean up really well with the volume on your guitar. Even just picking dynamics will get you different tones. It has more than enough gain on tap for most music, and the sound is kinda thick and smooth.

I personally did have a problem with it cutting through the mix, and I think the reason for that is the 6V6 output tubes. The sound isn't too punchy, and has a fairly soft lower end, which some people really like. In my band situation it just wasn't cutting through. We also had another guitarist playing a Dual Recto with a Strat, which is equivalent to taking an ice pick to your ears.

If I was to go the rockerverb line again, I would probably get the RV100 which has EL34's and is a lot punchier. Or the RV50, but switch it up to 2 EL34's and give that a try. Overall it's a great amp, and you should definitely give it a try.
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hithere
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Post by hithere » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:31 pm

I would probably be looking at the 100 because in the store I remember preferring it to the 50 when I tried it way back, playing through an orange 4x12

also the master volume is kick ass

also I like my cleans clean.


the comment with the twin reverb with a drive pedal is true, it can sound very good, but for me it simply doesn't seem to work out.

I never can connect with any drive pedals, and feel the lack of connection with my drive sound to be distracting me. While I love the twin clean, I even liked my solid states marshall clean, because it was darker and closed back I suppose.

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