Any pro songwriters/recording artists on here?

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Wendigo
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Post by Wendigo » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:14 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Camf</i>
<br /> And no worries about Kittenface, I used to have a dog like that... went all weird when it got old. Still, I loved his funny little face... til I had to have him put down... he was snapping at people and eating his own s---. Ah well!
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Boy, you really can't help but be a condescending SOB can you? I think you have the erronious delusion that anyone here is siding with you....

Camf
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Post by Camf » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:25 pm

Wasn't looking for any support or anyone to side with me. Just planned to quit and wanted to raise a couple of issues that I'd been thinking about before I went. I can't believe I'm the only person on here who thinks he wastes too much time reading these posts, am I? That was my point, and it's just my opinion. I wasn't the one who started the personal abuse... but I did have a dog like that... and he did get put down in the summer. It's one of the problems with getting old. But I've just got a young pup... much friendlier but still eats his own poop. Life's funny.

Brutalitarian Supremacy
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Post by Brutalitarian Supremacy » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:46 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by blacklight_uk</i>
<br />Sounds really interesting. Here's my take on that. I'm probably misinformed, gloriously short sighted and incredibly general but this is what I and the people I talk to are bothered about:

What's happening with unsigned bands from my perspective is that we're all being ignored.

Why? Because it's too easy to record an album, stick it on Myspace and fire off millions of links to record labels. How is anybody going to stand out from the crowd in a (probably unused) e-mail inbox with the words "HEY! Check out our Myspace profile!" plastered all over it? Too many people taking the easy option have killed that approach.

The other thing is that labels are far less likely to take a risk on a new band now. There's no money in album sales anymore due to a whole host of factors, illegal downloading being a significant one, so why should labels bother? We're starting to see more and more labels trying to cash in from tours as well as records, so how do the bands make a living?

Ironically though I think that bands (real bands who can actually play their own instruments live) will be the only way labels can make any money anymore. Why waste millions on a top producer who can make Jade Goody sound like Whitney Houston and then make her mime live when you could pull in a group of lads (or lasses) from the streets who actually know how to play, set them up with a modest producer and come up with a record that sounds brilliant and is easily replicated live? It saves you on session artist costs too.

The industry is due a spring clean and a fresh start, the sooner the big labels accept that and stop trying to churn out the bullsh*t they've been getting away with for so long the sooner the money will start coming back in and the more chance unsigned bands like mine and many others I know will have of getting a look in. If that doesn't happen how can music progress?

I mean look how good the charts were in the 60s! There were loads of amazing artists in there who could really play and write their own music. Then it went horribly wrong during the 70s (in my opinion) and got better again during the late 80s/early 90s with bands like Nirvana and then the Britpop scene etc. Then of course we had our charts filled with dance nonsense during the 90s and now it's just full of "indie" poseurs and manufactured dross. I think the industry goes in peaks and troughs, and while there are some GREAT bands around today, this is definitely a big trough...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...i dl music for the very reason of stealing from the record comps....they've stolen and made millions off of the back's of the artists...they will never get another dollar from me...plus the bonus of it all is the only bands that will be standing are the ones who function in a live situation...and in the past 5-7 yrs i've seen maybe 3 that are worth a s**t...eventually the music w/ come first...because there will be no money to be made
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Camf
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Post by Camf » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:57 pm

OK, well I guess I got it off my chest alright... interesting to see I was getting the hardest time from the guys who are closer to my age (except Brian, who was as charming as ever). A particular good luck to Teddy who has a great band and Josh Blacklight who seems to be getting it together pretty well, Neil, Brian and the others who are very generous... Joshlespaul1952 made me laugh a lot and a few others did too. To all, whatever level you play at, have a good 2009 and hope your plans come to fruition. To the others who thought I was a condescending know all... well, in your case, for once in your life, you may be right!
Enjoy.

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Post by sgpornstar » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:01 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Camf</i>
<br />Wasn't looking for any support or anyone to side with me. Just planned to quit and wanted to raise a couple of issues that I'd been thinking about before I went. I can't believe I'm the only person on here who thinks he wastes too much time reading these posts, am I?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And yet you still take time to post about not posting. You should take your own advice, when you get off of here you can become famous with the 45 seconds it takes you to comment on something.[:p] Merry Christmas.
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Post by MSP » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:27 pm

Granted, Camf was pretty patronizing, but he did raise a good point: if you keep saying you want to do something, you ought to do it already. I decided I wanted to finish a record before my 21st birthday, so it's a goal I'm going to meet.
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Post by blacklight_uk » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:59 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Brutalitarian Supremacy</i>
...i dl music for the very reason of stealing from the record comps....they've stolen and made millions off of the back's of the artists...they will never get another dollar from me...plus the bonus of it all is the only bands that will be standing are the ones who function in a live situation...and in the past 5-7 yrs i've seen maybe 3 that are worth a s**t...eventually the music w/ come first...because there will be no money to be made
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But don't you think it's wrong? I used to dl music illegally but then I realised it's exactly the same as walking into a shop, picking up a CD and putting it in your pocket. Just because you're not stealing a physical item doesn't mean you aren't stealing.

Also illegal downloading isn't doing bands any favours. What happens when a band fails to sell enough records? They get dropped. They end up on their arses in the gutter with a £150k advance they still haven't paid off.

I really don't think we're in a situation now where the labels are bleeding bands dry. The fact is, they may take 60% of a band's sales, but 60% of nothing is still nothing. The band doesn't sell, they get dropped, the labels poo themselves and shut down and everybody loses.

My opinion is that we have already taken away anything the labels stood to gain through illegal downloading, but it's now got to the point where the bloated sums they were raking in have all but disappeared. Where's the incentive to keep Billy and the Bobsters going now?

Record labels will never change. Label owners are businessmen and businessmen are in the game to make as much money as they can. So now there's no money any more, they all sod off to Monaco to hibernate until it's over.

Meanwhile nobody can produce a record because they don't have the money to pay a producer, so in walk the real artists, the guys who will work for nothing because they love doing it. The band comes in, records the song, the producer produces it for free and voila we have our first proper record for over 20 years!

So now we have no money but a great record, so instead of producing it as a CD we make it downloadable for 12p a track because the band's wives are complaining that they'd like to try some of that "organic gruel" from Lydl instead of the regular gruel. But then someone uploads it to "torrent porridge dot com" and everyone downloads it illegally, the band get fed up and set up their own organic gruel business instead and the whole industry dies on its arse while Myspace physically EATS Facebook and everyone with a fringe is sucked up into the sky and electrocuted.

I'm just sayin...;)
Josh

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Post by polishdog90 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:21 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by blacklight_uk</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Brutalitarian Supremacy</i>
...i dl music for the very reason of stealing from the record comps....they've stolen and made millions off of the back's of the artists...they will never get another dollar from me...plus the bonus of it all is the only bands that will be standing are the ones who function in a live situation...and in the past 5-7 yrs i've seen maybe 3 that are worth a s**t...eventually the music w/ come first...because there will be no money to be made
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

But don't you think it's wrong? I used to dl music illegally but then I realised it's exactly the same as walking into a shop, picking up a CD and putting it in your pocket. Just because you're not stealing a physical item doesn't mean you aren't stealing.

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On the stealing topic, I don't think it is wrong to steal from bands who don't need the money. I usually don't buy music from huge bands like Metallica, The Beatles, etc. They don't need my money. Yes I know it's stealing, and if I weren't going to get arrested I would walk into a record store and take a Jimi Hendrix Experience album. But when it comes to smaller bands I try to always buy their music. Or download it and then buy it later at one of their shows when it's tax free. I also like to buy T-shirts and go to live shows of smaller bands whenever they are in town. I'm all about supporting bands, but if the band is retired and living in a mansion I think they can survive without me buying their music.

To the OP, I go on this forum to learn and have fun. There are some very experienced musicians here and their advice and knowledge is very helpful to me. Even if I don't directly use all of the information I gain from this forum, I enjoy learning it. I love everything about music and strive to learn as much as I can about it. Whether it's reading biographies of musicians, learning theory from a teacher, or learning about gear on this forum, I don't think any of it is a waste of time. If you truly enjoy doing something it isn't a waste of time. Also, I usually play guitar several hours a day and come on here in my spare time (which is often late at night when I can't play guitar). I'm sure that even the very successful rock stars have hobbies and do things other than play music in their spare time. They might like to party and snort coke off the ass of a hooker, but I enjoy learning about all things musical instead (and I don't have access to an endless supply coke and hookers). Neither of us are wasting time, because we are having fun doing the things we love.

Yes I would like to be in a big band one day, but I don't think that this forum is going to prevent me from doing that. I don't view this as any different as sitting down and talking to friends about music. And I don't think you would tell me not to have a social life because I should be isolated in my room and playing guitar every minute that I am awake. I have applied to several music colleges and am planning on perusing a career in professional music, but I don't mind if I don't end up being signed to a major record company. Hell, I don't mind if I end up broke as long as I have music. Music is supposed to be fun. It doesn't matter if you're playing in front of 40,000 people or playing in your bedroom, as long as your having fun your playing the right music.

Anyway, I don't think you were trying to insult anyone with your statements, but you did kind of come off as being a bit rude. I think your right in that we shouldn't get distracted from achieving our goals, but I think that many of us on here play music often as well as posting here.
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Post by Joshlespaul1952 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:25 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Camf</i>
<br />Joshlespaul1952 made me laugh a lot and a few others did too.
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Glad I helped someone, somehow... ;)

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Post by Borderline Productions » Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:08 am

Josh, you're dead on. In the late 60s early 70s the musicians had complete artistic freedom. The record executives didn't understand the music, they were just glad it was selling. When they took control, the quality took a dive.

What to do in today's situation? Have a good band that can play well live (you'll bee ahead of 95% the pack if you can do this). Have good material. Have things tight when you go to record. Have a CD and merchandise to sell when you gig. I don't see where a label fits in except for distribution.

What I don't understand is how people can listen to MP3s when they sound so crappy compared to CDs or vinyl. I can see downloading to get a taste, but it will never be a meal.
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Post by Bink » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:11 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Borderline Productions</i>

What I don't understand is how people can listen to MP3s when they sound so crappy compared to CDs or vinyl. I can see downloading to get a taste, but it will never be a meal.
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I agree. I also really like have a CD collection. It's a bit like books to me. I like having the books on the shelf that I can pick up if I'm in the mood. Reading E-books just isn't the same.
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Post by Hoxton Hero » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:40 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by JNewton</i>
<br />I guess I'm a "professional". It's been five years since I've had a normal job.
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I think from your name and your pic your the bassist for ETiD?[:0]

If so you have one of, if not the best job in the world.8)

Brutalitarian Supremacy
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Post by Brutalitarian Supremacy » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:54 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Borderline Productions</i>
<br />Josh, you're dead on. In the late 60s early 70s the musicians had complete artistic freedom. The record executives didn't understand the music, they were just glad it was selling. When they took control, the quality took a dive.

What to do in today's situation? Have a good band that can play well live (you'll bee ahead of 95% the pack if you can do this). Have good material. Have things tight when you go to record. Have a CD and merchandise to sell when you gig. I don't see where a label fits in except for distribution.

What I don't understand is how people can listen to MP3s when they sound so crappy compared to CDs or vinyl. I can see downloading to get a taste, but it will never be a meal.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...agreed....I play a genre of music that is an aquired taste so we never expect to sell millions of copies...there is nothing a label can do that we cannot do better...so we cannot be bothered w/ all that crap...and yes mp3's sound like s**t...i listen to mostly vinyl (or FLAC vinyl rips)which most of the bands in the genre of music i enjoy release in very limited quantities and we aquire through trading (our releases w/ they distro for us)...I should have clarified that the bands I enjoy are never on a major label so the issue of stealing from them is non-existent, they're usually just stoked that somebody gives a s**t and wants to hear their art.....finally, do I feel guilty about stealing from record comps?....NOPE! most of them are owned and managed by pondscum anyway
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blacklight_uk
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Post by blacklight_uk » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:15 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Borderline Productions</i>
<br />Josh, you're dead on. In the late 60s early 70s the musicians had complete artistic freedom. The record executives didn't understand the music, they were just glad it was selling. When they took control, the quality took a dive.

What to do in today's situation? Have a good band that can play well live (you'll bee ahead of 95% the pack if you can do this). Have good material. Have things tight when you go to record. Have a CD and merchandise to sell when you gig. I don't see where a label fits in except for distribution.

What I don't understand is how people can listen to MP3s when they sound so crappy compared to CDs or vinyl. I can see downloading to get a taste, but it will never be a meal.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah I can't stand mp3s myself. I like to hear music the way that the band, the producer and the engineer heard it when they created it. That's the best way to REALLY enjoy listening to music in my opinion. Sure I have an iPod so I listen to mp3s on that if I'm on a journey or whatever but I have some sort of OCD about making sure they are all at 320kbps! Even through headphones you can really tell the difference.

My other pet hate is BBC Radio 1. They pride themselves on being "the loudest radio station". Only because they compress the life out of everything they play! It just makes your ears hurt after a while. Annoying stuff.

Brutalitarian Supremacy, I love listening to vinyl too. A lot of modern records seem to be over compressed and heavy on the top end. Vinyl just gives you such a warm and full bodied sound. If I could, I would release everything I ever make on vinyl, but I fear it's all going the mp3 route...
Josh

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Post by xTRUTHOFMYYOUTHx » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:57 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by blacklight_uk</i>
But don't you think it's wrong?

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in a way it is wrong, but then again i dont see good small indie bands on tv complaining about it. all i see is the dude from metallica getting mad because he now cant afford his 7th mansion. and watching that just makes me want to illegally download metallicas discography just for a slap in the face to those guys. if you havent noticed i REALLY dont like metallica. im not pressing my opinions on ANYONE if you like them, then i really am happy that you like them, im just using them as an example.
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