Any pro songwriters/recording artists on here?

blacklight_uk · Post by **blacklight_uk** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:29 pm

Sounds really interesting. Here's my take on that. I'm probably misinformed, gloriously short sighted and incredibly general but this is what I and the people I talk to are bothered about:

What's happening with unsigned bands from my perspective is that we're all being ignored.

Why? Because it's too easy to record an album, stick it on Myspace and fire off millions of links to record labels. How is anybody going to stand out from the crowd in a (probably unused) e-mail inbox with the words "HEY! Check out our Myspace profile!" plastered all over it? Too many people taking the easy option have killed that approach.

The other thing is that labels are far less likely to take a risk on a new band now. There's no money in album sales anymore due to a whole host of factors, illegal downloading being a significant one, so why should labels bother? We're starting to see more and more labels trying to cash in from tours as well as records, so how do the bands make a living?

Ironically though I think that bands (real bands who can actually play their own instruments live) will be the only way labels can make any money anymore. Why waste millions on a top producer who can make Jade Goody sound like Whitney Houston and then make her mime live when you could pull in a group of lads (or lasses) from the streets who actually know how to play, set them up with a modest producer and come up with a record that sounds brilliant and is easily replicated live? It saves you on session artist costs too.

The industry is due a spring clean and a fresh start, the sooner the big labels accept that and stop trying to churn out the bullsh*t they've been getting away with for so long the sooner the money will start coming back in and the more chance unsigned bands like mine and many others I know will have of getting a look in. If that doesn't happen how can music progress?

I mean look how good the charts were in the 60s! There were loads of amazing artists in there who could really play and write their own music. Then it went horribly wrong during the 70s (in my opinion) and got better again during the late 80s/early 90s with bands like Nirvana and then the Britpop scene etc. Then of course we had our charts filled with dance nonsense during the 90s and now it's just full of "indie" poseurs and manufactured dross. I think the industry goes in peaks and troughs, and while there are some GREAT bands around today, this is definitely a big trough...

JNewton · Post by **JNewton** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:32 pm

I guess I'm a "professional". It's been five years since I've had a normal job.

robchappers · Post by **robchappers** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:48 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by howdy-doo
 Rob Chappers' band is signed i think, but he doesnt seem to be a regular anymore, just on here everyone now and again
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I'm here mate, I do pop on when ever i get the time just been mega busy recently. Yes I am a pro and extremely grateful to the universe for it

I left my previous band "The Black hand" and now I am in Eternal Descent www.eternaldescent.com I will be ecording my first album with ED this coming year.

Happy Christmas everyone

Chappers

Camf · Post by **Camf** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:49 pm

You're right Wendygo, I'm aware I sound like a pompous old git but what the hell, it's the internet... nobody knows! However, I did spend over ten years working for one of the biggest and most successful indie record organisations of all time and saw a lots of bands do very well. Josh is right, the landscape has changed... and I suspect it has changed forever. Ironically, back in tthe 80s, my colleagues and I all dreamed of smashing the major labels' cartel and opening the music business to everyone... yikes, we didn't manage that, but who'd havce thought all the geeky kids with their computers were going to manage to do it instead... the nerds smashed the music business! Viva the revolution... maybe!

But the good news seesm to be that the fall of the record business has spelled the return of the live band! Several of my old friends who ran record/cd shops now very profitably mainly sell tickets for gigs and one of my oldest friends in the business is, by far, the most successful... and he's a booking agent (my old booking agent). Granted, he's now booking agent for the White Stripes, Foo Fighters, Strokes and many, many more... but he's profited by the massive increase in the profitability of live music. That means much more of the business is in the hands of the musicians and the people working directly as part of their team (management, roadcrew, agents, etc). That's got to be a good thing.

What that means, I think, is that the music busniess has changed but it's still a very big business... and it still eats up real talent. In over ten years working fulltime in the business and a lot longer as an aspiring musician, I never saw good bands not being signed up... it just doesn't happen.

People talk about lucky breaks and stuff like that... it's not true. Real talent works incredibly hard and makes smart decisions... when they get a lucky break, the difference is they maximise it, they screw it for everything they can out of it, and then get hunting for their next 'lucky' break!

Real talent is incredibly valuable. Think about it... there is an entire industry of experienced, ruthless professionsals out there absolutely desperate to get hold of it and expoloit it for every cent they can get. I'm sorry, but I realised years ago, if you're not getting signed up, you're still doing something wrong. You just haven't worked out what it is yet... probably getting priorities mixed up and losing focus on the main goals.

Now I'm not saying there is anything at all wrong with playing music for fun... it's brilliant. But if you want more than that... what are you doing chatting on the these forums? Just wondering? No harm meant.

robchappers · Post by **robchappers** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:13 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Camf
 I worked full-time managing some small indie labels and had my own publishing deal with one of the smaller majors for a few years... apart from my salary, that was the only serious money I ever made in the music business. I released a three very low key, but critically well received albums, several singles and toured a lot but not at the level I'm talking about... and it was all 20 years ago. I'm talking about the next level up... proper management and an A&R person assigned from the label. Is there anyone on the forum doing that now?
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Hi mate, my previous band was managed by Universal Records we were a live nation act so we toured with some cool acts, but then I realized that living in a van on minimum wage was essentially rubbish, especially when Universal were looking to shelve Alter Bridge because they weren't performing as expected... I soon realized that touring venues was no longer the way to build a fan base.

Now the industry has changed so much I truly believe there is no longer any need for a label at all, in fact a label can severely hinder a bands artistic growth. I have friends at the top of several major labels, EMI, Universal... and they tell me that all music will be non physical media within a few years this basically means everything can be done by the artist now as long as you can afford to buy good PR at the crucial time, and pay to book your own tours.

My new band "Invented" it's own label, we distribute through CD baby (Itunes), we have a PR company on a retainer, Eddie Kramer acts as our consult and we have major endorsements with ESP, Orange, D'Addario and Faith. We are the only technically unsigned band to be fully endorsed by ESP, one reason for this is that we are a concept act. We have a comic book "Eternal Descent" and we currently have 6 ESP artists contracted to feature in an issue each. My band tells the story of the comic book via the medium of music and as a result we kind of hitchhike on the two million plus fan base of these contracted artists who promote our comic for us. Genius

I am proof that labels are no longer required, rather than making Ã‚Â£1 per Album sale we make the full price minus Ã‚Â£1, we now have all the control and do not have to tour for 8 months of the year. Instead we plan 6 huge gigs once per year entirely self funded.

A very clever guy once told me that all bands really need is a direction, a plan, a little cash and a good lawyer... I think he was right

Jondog · Post by **Jondog** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:27 pm

I am not a pro.

Camf · Post by **Camf** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:42 pm

I should probably have mentioned at the outset, this is as much to do with my own annoyance at having spent for too much time on this and a couple of other forums... so my New Year's resolution is no posting other than for important technical, 'how-to' questions. It's such a time-eater and I need to do more writing and less typing... so at last I am leading by example. 2009! Time to get busy!

Wendigo · Post by **Wendigo** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:42 pm

I still firmly believe that if you are the type who works fanatically late into the night and can write 10 great songs you can make it.

Van Cleef · Post by **Van Cleef** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:12 pm

i was in a band that was signed to sony -- - - the band i'm in now turned one year old on dec 18 and we have interest from two small indie labels... be interesting to see what happens when our first ep is finished in feb

pages plexitone · Post by **pages plexitone** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:13 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Camf
 I should probably have mentioned at the outset, this is as much to do with my own annoyance at having spent for too much time on this and a couple of other forums... so my New Year's resolution is no posting other than for important technical, 'how-to' questions. It's such a time-eater and I need to do more writing and less typing... so at last I am leading by example. 2009! Time to get busy!
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You realize you're posting on an Orange Amp forum? This is a rest area of fun. It isn't work. So yeah, you got a lot of guys that SURPRISE! play Oranges and like each others company (with a couple exceptions). And yes, I don't recall anyone posting a LOOK HOW FRIGGIN SUCCESSFUL I AM post...Many here play for a living. But I haven't heard Brian May or Prince or Page chime in. So, yeah, you got us there by Golly.

The bottom line is, all window dressing aside, you're really no further in your vision of success than many of the other guys here. Yet you've taken it upon yourself to be the condescending voice of "experience." I mean GOSH, just look how many posts you've written on this topic alone! You obviously have waaaaaay too much time on your hands.

Good luck with that nebulous goal you've set again for yourself....and, I guess we'll gauge how far along you are with your pursuit by your absence.

Van Cleef · Post by **Van Cleef** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:23 pm

i play in a band because it's therapy - - it's what i do to counterbalance my job, which is... rather lucrative, but fairly difficult at times...

to me it's also about collaboration, creativity and friendship... likeminded crazies who each bring their own brand of madness to the sonic table and say "f*ck yeah"

i usd to write for tv... and i worked in advertising - - i've probably pissed more money up against the wall in my 35 years than you will ever earn... but at the moment i am at my happiest when i gig in a dirty local pub, playing loud... when the carpet sticks to the soles of your shoes

but to answer your original post... i am also in a position where i can work, play in a band and post on a forum and shoot the sh*t with likeminded individuals...

you come across as a fairly sad and bitter dude

merry christmas and i hope 2009 works out better for you

cheers

Camf · Post by **Camf** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:45 pm

Van Cleef... I'm sorry I gave offence... as I said above, I love playing for fun - it's wahat I do. I was just talking about those who don't want the day job, those who are busy trying to make it their living. It was quite revealing what Rob Chapman said... too busy to post on here... and he's even got a vested interest in Orange! Just to be clear, I'm not bitter, I'm very happy. I had the a great time playing music... did everything I wanted to do (apart from tour in the US). I was in the music biz for a long time and I'm still married to the same woman and I have happy kids and a job I love even more than being in a band - by any atandards, that's a result! But as I get older, boy do I regret wasting so much of my time on things that don't matter, when I could have been working harder on the things that really did matter. And these kinds of things, if you are really serious about what you do, waste a lot of time.
As for Kittenface... social skills are not really your area of expertise are they? So what's the come back? Something witty and informed perhaps? I really, really like the hat! And love the band.

Van Cleef · Post by **Van Cleef** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:04 pm

well hell - i don't want the dayjob either, but i'm a realist... i also think to make the proposition "it's either for fun or fame" is completely spurious

playing guitar, in a little band, is a hoot... sure it's self indulgent and at times narcissistic, and there's a por ROI... but when i drive to work and hear my band on the radio... that is awesome... i'm not doing this to be famous... i'm doing it because i enjoy it... and that's why i turn up to work feeling tired, that's why i spend too much cash on guitars and pedals.... and that's why i don't have any plans to stop what i'm doing until i'm too old to hold an axe...

Heartsndspades · Post by **Heartsndspades** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:25 pm

sherman (basskid if i remember right) is playing bass for the veronicas but hasn't been here for awhile... touring with the jonas brothers and all so yea him.. but again thats not his stuff.
i haven't been on here much due to college shyt but im on break for a bit so have been checkn in when bored.

kittenface chill dude

merry xmas

Camf · Post by **Camf** » Thu Dec 25, 2008 5:33 pm

Thanks Heartsndspades... Sherman's maybe a good case in point. These guys who are getting on with it, are getting on with it. Isn't that the best thing? But if you're still prevaricating amybe this is the time... make your resolution for 2009 be... stop posting, start making it happen. And no worries about Kittenface, I used to have a dog like that... went all weird when it got old. Still, I loved his funny little face... til I had to have him put down... he was snapping at people and eating his own s---. Ah well!

Any pro songwriters/recording artists on here?

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