Just a little addition to the cable debate!

Le Chat Noir · Post by **Le Chat Noir** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:15 pm

French

They're both beautiful languages and I wish I could speak both better... but I learned French at school so I'm more proficient there!

Been on tour twice to italy and I pick up a little bit more each time, but it seems a lot closer to Spanish, so I let Eileen do the talking - she the drummer in my band, she's California born but with Mexican/Spanish roots, so she has a knack for Spanish beyond my abilities

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:18 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the seller was making from Van Damme cable with Neutrik connectors, if you moved it you'd hear it as it hit the floor, a weird microphonic kind of noise. The Zaolla doesn't do that<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Van Damme & Neutrik doesn't do that either, least not if it's soldered properly. I must have a dozen of those cables I put together myself... and i'm not the world's greatest solderer... and none of them do that.

I tell you what was a good invention though... the silent jacks that Neutrik do. NO NOISE when unplugging, dragging the tip over your jack socket, and plugging in. It's got a ring on a spring which means your connection isn't fully made until that is depressed (by you fully plugging the lead in). So no noise, nada, nothing when you drop a cable.

I've been reasonably interested by this discussion, but I think my conclusion is this:

If you have a cable & plugs with "acceptable" signal transmission properties and a low enough noise floor, does it really matter which it is that you use? Because the rest can all be adjusted / dialled in / dialled out from your amp or guitar. Why bother spending Ã‚Â£Ã‚Â£Ã‚Â£ on the cables when a reasonably priced & good enough one will do?

I don't pretend my VDC and Neutriks are the best out there, but they're built very sturdily, sound clearer than most offerings in the music shops, and don't cost the earth. Why spend more for Zaolla/Siren/Fulltone which will give me some more midrange tone when I can just reach for that magic dial on my amp?

Sorry guys, I see the point up to a point - to whit, "get a decent cable" - but beyond that, the rest is just audiophile snobbery OR needless tinkering with something that can be solved very easily another way.

/ rant

Le Chat Noir · Post by **Le Chat Noir** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:21 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by irish_admiral
Sorry guys, I see the point up to a point - to whit, "get a decent cable" - but beyond that, the rest is just audiophile snobbery OR needless tinkering with something that can be solved very easily another way.
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...and the circle of argument goes round again...

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:36 pm

Yeah, sort of.

The question is valid if it is, "what do the different cables sound like?" If it is, "which is better?" then it is not because I think the point is that once you reach a certain quality of cable it just becomes a matter of preference... sort of like picking the body wood of your guitar.

There has been a lot of talk about this cable or that cable "improving" your sound, which is where I draw the line - having noted my caveat above about sufficient cable quality - and say that it's all so much hot air.

There is no better or worse, just different. If you don't like it, go spend Ã‚Â£50 on a cable if you like. I'll just tweak the EQ on my amp and move on if it bothered me that much!

The rest of it is principally snake oil / an advertising ploy to get you to buy their cables - like the 'directional cable' bollocks. Does you cable work? Is it quiet enough? Great, that's sorted - one less thing to think about. I can worry about getting my chops right now because the cable isn't going to make me sound good on its own!

See what that bad boy's got plugged into his guitar? Good - I rest my case...

BrianGT · Post by **BrianGT** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:53 pm

Joe.....with respect...you always write as if what you say is "fact".....or at least that's how it always comes across.

Nobody is telling anybody to spend a fortune on cables...Nobody!

All I am saying is that you CAN hear differences between cables....you might prefer the cheapie.....good for you!
Some of the differences you can't EQ out.
How do you add punch? Turn it up? It's not the same thing!

I don't use effects.......so I hear guitar cable and amp....if I change cables it stands out a mile! It might not with 13 pedals in a chain!

Allow me my cable....I think I have decent enough tone to want to pour snake oil on it....when I have heard your tone I might be able to see where you are coming from and whether any of this does make a difference.

I totally agree about the curly cable.....I was thinking earlier how all of this "searching for tone" is a recent thing......back then they just played.......guitars and amps mainly off the shelf!
But then Jimi did have talent way beyond any of us.

Le Chat Noir · Post by **Le Chat Noir** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:58 pm

I see your point Joe... in the end, the most important thing is musical ability and mojo, not what gear you use. Hendrix was a genius, and could play like a demon - he'd make any amp and leads sound like heaven.

However... I always wonder, 'how good would Hendrix sound now, if he played with THE BEST EQUIPMENT we have today?'. Personally, I think his tone would be on another level.

screamingdaisy · Post by **screamingdaisy** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:40 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by irish_admiral

See what that bad boy's got plugged into his guitar? Good - I rest my case...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hendrix insisted on those cables.... because he liked the way they sounded better than other cables.

No difference to what we're doing today.

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:50 pm

Lol, I reckon there's always be someone saying, "ah, if only he'd used a Dumble he'd have sounded a lot better," and over in the blue corner someone would be saying, "got to be a Fuchs for that sound!" etc etc...

Brian, i'm not trying to put it over as fact so apologies if it sounded like that. I was typing as I was thinking (unusual for me), but I in fact entirely agree with your point that you CAN hear differences in the cables.

My point was that - once you've got to a certain quality of cable (and let's leave price out of it: Neutrik & van damme isn't exactly cheap, but it's not as expensive as some others) - the differences you hear are simply differences rather than improvements. One person's positive is another person's negative.

It was like Teddy was saying: his Venoms sounded a bit brighter whereas the Zaollas sounded more middy. Personally? I'd take the brighter sounding cables! Because normally the high frequencies are the first to go on longer runs of unbalanced cable, so a middy sound - to me - says that i've got an inferior cable...

Now i'm not saying that's the case! In this instance Zaolla have obviously designed it that way. But the subtext that Zaolla want you to read into this is, "our sound is better than Venom's sound," whereas a more truthful reading (assuming similar build quality) might be, "our sound is different to Venom's sound."

See what I mean?

I also agree with you that you can't always perfectly EQ your way out of problems, but with a decent amp EQ and a good PA technician on FOH you can pretty much nail most things. How many people on this forum have said, "I can make my Tele & Orange sound like so-and-so from this band or that band" when the person in question is using a Les Paul and Marshall JCM800!

At any rate, enough of my nonsense. What i'm trying to say is that... and sorry to keep emphasising this... assuming you have hit a sufficient build quality & low noise threshold with your cable, it's just all preference.

Can you hear a difference? Yes!

Does that mean it's better? No!

Can I still plug my Strat into half a dozen Marshall fullstacks with a telephone cord and gain a tone that most guitarists would gnaw their arm off for? Absolutely...

... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Power to all those who want to try!

Rock on brothers & sisters...

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:53 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Hendrix insisted on those cables.... because he liked the way they sounded better than other cables.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think you've made the point i've been trying to get across... HE preferred them. They weren't necessarily better than the other alternatives, just different.

Looking at the things, it doesn't look as if they were intentionally designed to be better.

It's not any different to what we're doing today, but what I was saying was that whilst everyone is entitled to their preferences, and once you hit a certain quality of cable, it's just preference. It's not any better.

screamingdaisy · Post by **screamingdaisy** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:15 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by irish_admiral

It's not any different to what we're doing today, but what I was saying was that whilst everyone is entitled to their preferences, and once you hit a certain quality of cable, it's just preference. It's not any better.
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I agree.

I believe firmly in the law of diminishing returns... particularily with cables.

There'll be a big difference between crap and entry level.

There'll be a moderate difference between entry level and mid grade.

There'll be a small difference between mid grade and high end.

There'll be a marginal difference between high end and uber boutique.

You'll notice I used the word 'difference' and not 'better'.

Technically, one of my 10ft cables will be 'better' than one of my 20ft cables. However, I prefer the sound of the 20ft.

BrianGT · Post by **BrianGT** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:29 pm

Hey Joe! It's all part of the journey!

It's great to be able to debate all this kind of stuff.....otherwise what would we talk about?

Le Chat Noir · Post by **Le Chat Noir** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:46 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by irish_admiral
 Lol, I reckon there's always be someone saying, "ah, if only he'd used a Dumble he'd have sounded a lot better," and over in the blue corner someone would be saying, "got to be a Fuchs for that sound!" etc etc...
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Well, that wasn't my point - I hate that people try to seek 'that tone' someone else got 30 years ago. I have no interest in that myself, I want my rig to sound like *me* and have the best tone for *me*. I wager that if Hendrix was around now, he would not be using the same gear (including cables) he did back then - he'd have totally evolved, and it's crass for the rest of us to keep going back there in search of a tone that was his alone.

Hendrix would NOT be using his amps and cables from the 70s now - he'd have moved on to god knows what gear, but rest assured, he'd be sounding better than ever. He'd be as pioneering as ever. I bet that right now, he'd be making the most of any technological advances to get the sound HE wanted - and so should the rest of us.

notagain · Post by **notagain** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:59 pm

Excellent point Teddy, I do not buy gear to sound
like anyone other than myself either. Not to say
there are many great guitar players that I wish I
could play as well as, but with my spin and my
equipment on it!

screamingdaisy · Post by **screamingdaisy** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:42 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Le Chat Noir
Hendrix would NOT be using his amps and cables from the 70s now - he'd have moved on to god knows what gear, but rest assured, he'd be sounding better than ever. He'd be as pioneering as ever. I bet that right now, he'd be making the most of any technological advances to get the sound HE wanted - and so should the rest of us.
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Didn't work that way for Eddie VH.

polishdog90 · Post by **polishdog90** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:21 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by screamingdaisy
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Le Chat Noir
Hendrix would NOT be using his amps and cables from the 70s now - he'd have moved on to god knows what gear, but rest assured, he'd be sounding better than ever. He'd be as pioneering as ever. I bet that right now, he'd be making the most of any technological advances to get the sound HE wanted - and so should the rest of us.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Didn't work that way for Eddie VH.
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I'm not trying to diss Eddie, but I don't think he is in the same category as Hendrix when it comes to creativity and innovation.

Just a little addition to the cable debate!

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