Rockerverb Tube questions...

Tusko · Post by **Tusko** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:58 pm

With EHarmonix Gold preamp tubes my head is just smoking!!! Getting the new Bare Knuckle Pu`s back tomorrow all fitted and coil tapped in my Schecter and cannot wait!!!

I am now thinking of going for some new EL34 power tubes for the amp, to match the new pre-amp section, and just wondering what difference I will notice and what El34`s will work well with the response etc of a seven string. I hope none of this sounds daft, but just throwing it open as more and more people seem to becoming Orange experts on here!!

I also spoke to Damon @ Orange UK about my tube change, he advised they were unhappy with the Chinese tubes and having a meeting with Electro Harmonix I guess to discuss future tube issues. He also categorically stated that the Rockerverb head does NOT need rebiasing. I tried to explain Kannibul`s post and pic etc...but he said the plate voltage should be set for whatever power tubes I pick by just flipping the switch on the back.

Any further info on this elusive question anyone???

-Tusko

"The Power of the Riff Compels Me......"

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:38 pm

If you're asking what tone change you'll get with new power tubes... it'll probably sound a bit nicer if your current ones are stock Chinese, or a bit worn out. Not too sure about the switch on the back.

RV owners chime in here...

Joe

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...
G&L ASAT - Les Paul Classic (for sale!) - AD30R

Deif · Post by **Deif** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:35 pm

Im thinking about getting EH tubes for my Rockerverb 100 .. the ones that come with the amp are 12AX7 or ECC83? what's the difference between them?

kannibul · Post by **kannibul** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
With EHarmonix Gold preamp tubes my head is just smoking!!! Getting the new Bare Knuckle Pu`s back tomorrow all fitted and coil tapped in my Schecter and cannot wait!!!

I am now thinking of going for some new EL34 power tubes for the amp, to match the new pre-amp section, and just wondering what difference I will notice and what El34`s will work well with the response etc of a seven string. I hope none of this sounds daft, but just throwing it open as more and more people seem to becoming Orange experts on here!!

I also spoke to Damon @ Orange UK about my tube change, he advised they were unhappy with the Chinese tubes and having a meeting with Electro Harmonix I guess to discuss future tube issues. He also categorically stated that the Rockerverb head does NOT need rebiasing. I tried to explain Kannibul`s post and pic etc...but he said the plate voltage should be set for whatever power tubes I pick by just flipping the switch on the back.

Any further info on this elusive question anyone???

-Tusko

"The Power of the Riff Compels Me......"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I can categorically say he is wrong...

I've talked to Jason and Russell @ Orange USA, and indirectly, through Jason, to Adrian and I've reviewed the schematics myself, and I've have tried out about 8 quads of power tubes, and I can tell you with absolute certainty, the amp needs to be biased. In fact, the bias control is too COLD for most power tubes available. You have to specify VERY HOT tubes to get it in the range of where it should be...

Also, the switch has nothing to do with plate voltages. All it does is drop the Bias Voltage closer to 0 with 6L6's, by inserting/removing a resistor (depending on switch position) in the bias circuit.

He's wrong, again.

Edited by - kannibul on 31 Mar 2005 00:00:38

Edited by - kannibul on 31 Mar 2005 00:33:07

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> the ones that come with the amp are 12AX7 or ECC83? what's the difference between them? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>ECC83 is the European denomination for 12AX7 valves. If you mean difference between EH valves and stock Chinese ones, you'll probably find that the EH ones are tighter, more defined, better bass & highs, round about the same gain (perhaps a little higher), and an all-round better valve in most peoples' view. Someone here likes the stock Chinese valves though: I forget who.

Kannibul, Damon works with Ade Emsley at the UK office. Maybe he was just having a weird day if he told you that, but on the other hand, he might also be right.

Simplest way of working it out is to get in touch with the UK office and ask for Adrian Emsley and find out direct from the horse's mouth. Then publish here.

For the record, AD30 owners do not need to rebias or alter anything when changing any tube.

Joe

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...
G&L ASAT - Les Paul Classic (for sale!) - AD30R

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:20 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> For the record, AD30 owners do not need to rebias or alter anything when changing any tube.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Oh, that gem came from speaking directly to Ade. I've been told other things by people working at valve shops and amp designers, but i'd prefer to listen to the guys who designed it <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Joe

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...
G&L ASAT - Les Paul Classic (for sale!) - AD30R

kannibul · Post by **kannibul** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> the ones that come with the amp are 12AX7 or ECC83? what's the difference between them? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>ECC83 is the European denomination for 12AX7 valves. If you mean difference between EH valves and stock Chinese ones, you'll probably find that the EH ones are tighter, more defined, better bass & highs, round about the same gain (perhaps a little higher), and an all-round better valve in most peoples' view. Someone here likes the stock Chinese valves though: I forget who.

Kannibul, Damon works with Ade Emsley at the UK office. Maybe he was just having a weird day if he told you that, but on the other hand, he might also be right.

Simplest way of working it out is to get in touch with the UK office and ask for Adrian Emsley and find out direct from the horse's mouth. Then publish here.

For the record, AD30 owners do not need to rebias or alter anything when changing any tube.

Joe

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...
G&L ASAT - Les Paul Classic (for sale!) - AD30R
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I've talked extensively with Orange USA, and indirectly with Adrian, specifically about the bias control not sweeping hot enough for "typical" tubes that are available.

As it is, you have to basically tell your vendor to send you the hottest set they have, and cross your fingers that you can get the tubes hot enough.

I bought a quad of JJ 6L6's, from Eurotubes, and Bob told me those were the hottest he's had in a LONG time - I couldn't bias them hot enough.

EL34 have to be pretty up there too.

I'm not trying to do anything out of the ordinary with this either - just matching what the factory had setup on my amp - which when measured with my Weber Bias Rite, calculated out to 60% idle. I'm matching what they gave me, to what I get with other tubes. It's not rocket science, and I can absolutely tell everyone that the Rockerverb 50 and Rockerverb 100 need to be biased each and everytime you change your tubes.

It even says it on the damn PCB!!!

Edited by - kannibul on 31 Mar 2005 04:15:49

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:45 am

That's fine mate. We'll just get it directly from Ade to make sure no-one's playing Chinese whispers at the Orange offices.

Joe

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...
G&L ASAT - Les Paul Classic (for sale!) - AD30R

morgwn · Post by **morgwn** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:20 pm

What preamp tubes (brand) would be in a Rockerverb from built in around sept. of last year? I haven't popped the back off it yet

indravayu · Post by **indravayu** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:56 pm

Man, I wish this issue could be settled once and for all! I put new power tubes (EH 6V6's) in my RV50H about 4 months ago and, based on people's comments here, I did not rebias the amp. If the amp _does_ need to be rebiased after all am I damaging my amp?

- Chris

http://www.thelawoffives.com

bassdrop · Post by **bassdrop** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:21 pm

Look into the back of the amp when its turned and preferably after dark with the lights turned low to see if the power tubes are glowing with a reddish color brightly and around the plates instead of an orange glow from the heater. If this is the case, you're probably biased too hot and could wear the tubes prematurely and possibly damage the transformer (although they overbuild them a good bit at Orange). If you're biased too cold the tubes will actually last longer but the tone won't be up to snuff.

mmmmmm drop

Deif · Post by **Deif** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:27 pm

i don't get it, what you're saying is that if you change the stock tubes you need to rebias the amp even if they new ones are EL34s?

kannibul · Post by **kannibul** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Man, I wish this issue could be settled once and for all! I put new power tubes (EH 6V6's) in my RV50H about 4 months ago and, based on people's comments here, I did not rebias the amp. If the amp _does_ need to be rebiased after all am I damaging my amp?

- Chris

http://www.thelawoffives.com
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Might be damaging your tubes, but the amp should be OK for the most part.

kannibul · Post by **kannibul** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
i don't get it, what you're saying is that if you change the stock tubes you need to rebias the amp even if they new ones are EL34s?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

*Every* time you change tubes, you need to check the bias and adjust as needed.

irish_admiral · Post by **irish_admiral** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:32 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>i don't get it <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Neither do we. I'll try and call Adrian at the UK office tomorrow to get a direct quote on whether the RV's need rebiasing. I seem to recall that Kannibul might be right, but i'll go check anyway and let folks know.

Joe

Don't tell me the best way, just tell me the cheapest way...
G&L ASAT - Les Paul Classic (for sale!) - AD30R

Rockerverb Tube questions...

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