orange build quality

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:29 pm

Nah, an idiot got to that one i'm afraid.....Thats a late 70'd overdrive model by the looks of things that some fool has sprayed black. I wonder what the innards look like? If someone has done that to the outside the inside could be butchered aswell....

John JamesReuben Shepherd · Post by **John JamesReuben Shepherd** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:52 pm

I work in a guitar store. I am posting facts. Sorry you fanboys can't handle that although this amps are fantastic sounding, they are anything but consistently well built. I love my RV50 but have handled more repairs on brand new oranges than any of you would try to comprehend

hellhazard · Post by **hellhazard** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:00 pm

Just read on the facebook page that one guys rockerverb went up in flames a few days ago. Id imagine that it happens to all makes and models to some degree. Any manufacturer can only be liable for thier own build quality and try thier best to pick the creame of the crop of components and hope that those companies goods are not faulty.
I doubt any builders test every single component before it is soldered into place, whether hand built or robot.

bobbypfalcon · Post by **bobbypfalcon** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:17 am

This whole concept is funny to me. Tube amps blow - simple as that. My RV50 hasn't failed yet but eventually I'll bang it around enough to blow it up. My JCM 800's and 900's all eventually blew with either transformers or a litany of other tube-blowing maladies. If you want that sterile, yet bulletproof design you're better off buying some printed circuit board solid-state head like a Randall... But what would that sound like? Crap of course - but it's crappiness might last forever:D

I played bass in a band for five years even though it's not my first instrument. I had an old SVT and a new SVT-2 Pro. The SVT-2 Pro never once failed me and I was constantly fixing and retubing the SVT... Funny thing is - I could get the tones on the SVT-2 that I got with the "Bombproof" old-school head. Sometimes they don't make 'em like that anymore for good reason. Reliablility is one of those reasons.

I'd say the same thing as Dr. Basement amp maker if I wanted to sell my own product.

Orphin · Post by **Orphin** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:35 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bobbypfalcon
 This whole concept is funny to me. Tube amps blow - simple as that. My RV50 hasn't failed yet but eventually I'll bang it around enough to blow it up. My JCM 800's and 900's all eventually blew with either transformers or a litany of other tube-blowing maladies. If you want that sterile, yet bulletproof design you're better off buying some printed circuit board solid-state head like a Randall... But what would that sound like? Crap of course - but it's crappiness might last forever:D

I played bass in a band for five years even though it's not my first instrument. I had an old SVT and a new SVT-2 Pro. The SVT-2 Pro never once failed me and I was constantly fixing and retubing the SVT... Funny thing is - I could get the tones on the SVT-2 that I got with the "Bombproof" old-school head. Sometimes they don't make 'em like that anymore for good reason. Reliablility is one of those reasons.

I'd say the same thing as Dr. Basement amp maker if I wanted to sell my own product.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
I wouldn't use the term "blow". A good transformer should blow up unless the user is doing something wrong.
Of course a tube amp will eventually break down, and it is then it is easier to fix with a simple handwired construction.
Even the PCB SS Randall will die eventually, but fixing it could be a nightmare, and might cost as much as buying a new one.

matchiltd · Post by **matchiltd** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:15 pm

i think that the man in the shop was getting confused with chinese made crush range from orange or the usa made cabs because the British amps are as good as ever

Y0UNGBL00D · Post by **Y0UNGBL00D** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:24 pm

im absolutely sold on the sound of the TV50 as well. i own it.
build quality? well heres a gut shot:

yeah, its PCB and not handwired, but damn if it aint one of the prettiest, well laid out, sturdy looking PCBs on earth. huge traces, super thick. i wish maybe there were more flying leads and less board-mounted components (tube sockets and pots. this is where your business minded salesperson comes in as far as "making new amps old", but i could do this myself and dont really see the need. just a small gripe)
this being said, sadly, my TV50 did develope a completely unheard of cross-channel parasitic oscillation, but since orange couldnt replicate the issue after i sent it to them, i am led to believe the trouble lie outside the amp, which i cannot explain how. so when it gets back on tuesday, we'll see, but 6 years of US navy troubleshooting experience tells me its the amp.

bobbypfalcon · Post by **bobbypfalcon** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:10 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Orphin
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bobbypfalcon
 This whole concept is funny to me. Tube amps blow - simple as that. My RV50 hasn't failed yet but eventually I'll bang it around enough to blow it up. My JCM 800's and 900's all eventually blew with either transformers or a litany of other tube-blowing maladies. If you want that sterile, yet bulletproof design you're better off buying some printed circuit board solid-state head like a Randall... But what would that sound like? Crap of course - but it's crappiness might last forever:D

I played bass in a band for five years even though it's not my first instrument. I had an old SVT and a new SVT-2 Pro. The SVT-2 Pro never once failed me and I was constantly fixing and retubing the SVT... Funny thing is - I could get the tones on the SVT-2 that I got with the "Bombproof" old-school head. Sometimes they don't make 'em like that anymore for good reason. Reliablility is one of those reasons.

I'd say the same thing as Dr. Basement amp maker if I wanted to sell my own product.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
I wouldn't use the term "blow". A good transformer should blow up unless the user is doing something wrong.
Of course a tube amp will eventually break down, and it is then it is easier to fix with a simple handwired construction.
Even the PCB SS Randall will die eventually, but fixing it could be a nightmare, and might cost as much as buying a new one.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I use the term blow because it's blown to me if it doesn't work regardless of the reason!8)
At any rate I was always able to get them going again. I've seen many a handwired amp that was difficult to diagnose when it had an issue - but that's just my experience. I have a hard time believing a modern two-channel amp with an effects loop and tube reverb would be more reliable if it were hand-wired... But since I've never seen a handwired amp of that level of complexity it probably makes my point better than I ever could. The point I was trying to make is that tube amps break down for a variety of reasons whether they're hand made or not. And they're worth it!

peace

Orphin · Post by **Orphin** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:28 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have a hard time believing a modern two-channel amp with an effects loop and tube reverb would be more reliable if it were hand-wired...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
A hand wired amp is built under the builders supervision. He will have control over every solder being made.
A wave soldered amp is soldered in one shot, and quality test is some dude bending the PCB to see if something's loose.

See the first episode of the 7:th season How it's made, and you will see how a "modern" amp is made.
Then if you want to compare that to a handmade amp, visit Matamp and see how an amp is made there.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The point I was trying to make is that tube amps break down for a variety of reasons whether they're hand made or not.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Of course, but that's a different discussion. Any tube amp will break down eventually, but China built PCB amps tends to break down after a week or a month. When I bought a RV100 I got two amps that failed on me, and the third unit was good.
Once the PCB amp outlives the first month(s), the honeymoon period, it should be as reliable and a handwired amp.
But when it eventually breaks down, an amp built PTP on a turretboard is much easier to fix.

bobbypfalcon · Post by **bobbypfalcon** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:48 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Orphin
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have a hard time believing a modern two-channel amp with an effects loop and tube reverb would be more reliable if it were hand-wired...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
A hand wired amp is built under the builders supervision. He will have control over every solder being made.
A wave soldered amp is soldered in one shot, and quality test is some dude bending the PCB to see if something's loose.

See the first episode of the 7:th season How it's made, and you will see how a "modern" amp is made.
Then if you want to compare that to a handmade amp, visit Matamp and see how an amp is made there.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The point I was trying to make is that tube amps break down for a variety of reasons whether they're hand made or not.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Of course, but that's a different discussion. Any tube amp will break down eventually, but China built PCB amps tends to break down after a week or a month. When I bought a RV100 I got two amps that failed on me, and the third unit was good.
Once the PCB amp outlives the first month(s), the honeymoon period, it should be as reliable and a handwired amp.
But when it eventually breaks down, an amp built PTP on a turretboard is much easier to fix.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I actually do know how amps are built - not that I could or would want to do it myself8)
It's hard to have the type of feature-set an RV has in a handwired amp - that's why no one makes them. I've yet to see a turretboard amp that isn't relatively basic in design and features due to space limitations. I'm all for handwired amps if they're single-channel and have simple signal paths - which is what makes them great. I just haven't had the same bad luck you've had with PCB amps I suppose. I've never had a PCB head that was dead on arrival. That would suck and probably color my perception as well. The point of this topic was build quality of Orange and only the custom shop heads are handwired - and are simpler feature sets - which was the point I was trying to make... I'd love to hear a hand built RV and Ade probably has one somewhere. How much, and how big, Ade?:D peace

Orphin · Post by **Orphin** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:00 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's hard to have the type of feature-set an RV has in a handwired amp - that's why no one makes them. I've yet to see a turretboard amp that isn't relatively basic in design and features due to space limitations.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Matamp does. Space is limited, but they use the most of it:

Damn-Deal-Done · Post by **Damn-Deal-Done** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:24 pm

Exactly, some matamps are nothing but features. The more an amp looks like a computer on the inside, the less I would want to touch it.

What I don't get is, how can Matamp's prices be the same as a Rockerverb. One made by hand, the other constructed on an assembly line. If PCBs are to cut costs and keep up with demands then where are the savings going?

Damn-Deal-Done · Post by **Damn-Deal-Done** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:28 pm

I guess this is why there is no talking prices on the forum.

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:46 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Damn-Deal-Done
 Exactly, some matamps are nothing but features. The more an amp looks like a computer on the inside, the less I would want to touch it.

What I don't get is, how can Matamp's prices be the same as a Rockerverb. One made by hand, the other constructed on an assembly line. If PCBs are to cut costs and keep up with demands then where are the savings going?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, Matamp are going to want to compete with Orange to a degree....their amps are sold to muscians of similar tastes. Therefore they'll want to keep their prices about that Orange have their amps at. Cliff Cooper though is a businessman...he wants max profits as any sensible businessman does therefore he'll cut his production costs to maximise his profits.

Simon Wicks · Post by **Simon Wicks** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:51 pm

One thing i would say is that PCB based amps are a nessacity if you take the gain up past a certain level. Hand wired high gain amps normally suffer oscillation issues simply because of the nature of the layout. A PCB can be a lot cleaner and better laid out and therefore quieter.

The way the PCBs are done these days though (wave soldering) will lead to more defects. I think if i ever bought a modern Orange i'd take the board out and retouch the solder joints just to make sure. Marshall do this aswell. They wave solder their boards but i suspect they're QC is a little better...

orange build quality

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