Who uses their FX LOOP?

onewaycpr · Post by **onewaycpr** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:24 pm

Practice is canceled tonight and i got my board and RV50 here with me so i wanna learn how to use my patch bay on my SKB pedal board. Im lost with the FX loop stuff. I know wahs, overdrive and distortion all stay in front of the amp but i don't know how to throw my other FXs in the loop. Does any one use the SKB patch bay?

sorry for the bad pic...

Norrin Radd · Post by **Norrin Radd** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:10 pm

Don't have one of those - but I do use the effects loop on my RV50. IME, it's one of the better ones out there. The Budda's are pretty good too. I played a SD80 at practice last night -= sounded great - but not enough oomph for me. My other guitar player fell in love though - it is more his style, but I digress.

You should use the loop on your RV50 - not sure how to set it up with that SKB board though - why not experiment and see???

onewaycpr · Post by **onewaycpr** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:58 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Norrin Radd
 why not experiment and see???
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As we speak... lol

lxuser · Post by **lxuser** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:11 pm

I have the same pedal board and when I set it up, I used this diagram, just substitute the rack effects in the diagram for ANYTHING you want running in the effects loop.

Peau d Orange · Post by **Peau d Orange** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:31 pm

I have an RV50 and use this same pedal board. I only use the patch bay to split the signal for a 2 amp set-up. If i'm only using the RV50 then I think it is best to avoid the patch bay. Just run your modulation pedals (chorus, delay, etc..) in the loop and plug the other stuff (tuner, wah, dist, etc...) into the input. The less signal splitting you do the better. I have experimented with the pedal board in multiple configurations, so if you tell me your effects path I may be able to be more specific and give recommendations on a set-up. By the way, currently I am not using the loop in an effort to ease set-up and decrease noise degradation. The jury is still out but my delay is definitely better through the loop. Cheers

In this pic (older set-up), the yellow cable is from the RV50 loop send and is in the input of the DL-4. The red is DL-4 out to loop return. The other input/output of the DL-4 is dedicated to my other amp (Vox AC15, no loop) with the original signal (guitar, tuner, wah, OD, deja-vibe) being split by using the pedal board's patch bay. Hope that helps.

onewaycpr · Post by **onewaycpr** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:45 pm

ok so i rigged something up then turned on the amp and all i heard was a loud buzz... i guess i got some bad cables. I found some old chords in my bag cuz i didn't have enough. Guess i'll need to buy some more... thanks LXuser and Peau d Orange! I'll deff try again once I get some more cables.

LeonC · Post by **LeonC** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:57 pm

Jody - I you probably want only the time-based effects going through the loop. What you may want do first, is take them off your board temporarily and plug them directly into the loop in the RV50 like this:

RV50 send-->time based effects-->RV50 Return
Guitar-->other pedals-->RV50 input

If that sounds good, then try rigging it to your pedal board. The idea is that your guitar's input signal will NOT be going through these effects; they'll be getting their input from the amp's SEND and will be delivering their output to the amp's RETURN.

Hope that helps.

onewaycpr · Post by **onewaycpr** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:10 pm

Yes LeonC that spells it out really simple for me. I think i'll do that.

Heres my set up:

Guitar > Volume Pedal > Rat > Cusack Screamer > T-Rex Delay > DL-4 > Cusack Tap'A'Whirl > Holy Grail > Amp

I will try:

Guitar > Volume Pedal > Rat > Cusack Screamer > Amp Input
+
Send > T-Rex Delay > DL-4 > Cusack Tap'A'Whirl > Holy Grail > Return

Do these FX Tremolo, Flange, and Phasers go in the Loop or stay in front?

adamskiuk · Post by **adamskiuk** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:11 pm

hi there, i have tried using the loop in my rockerverb combo. A good investment if you like the sound of using the loop is a pedal snake. It is one big cable (long length & good quality) with 5 cabes built in. So your footswitch, send, return, input can all be in one cable accross the stage. check them out.
I actually like my delay etc in front of the amp? but i guess i dont use that much gain so perhaps it depends on your style? Either way, experiment, hav fun , use your ears. I dont think its possible to get a bad sound out of the rocker series (or any orange);)

jamison162 · Post by **jamison162** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:31 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LeonC
 Jody - I you probably want only the time-based effects going through the loop. What you may want do first, is take them off your board temporarily and plug them directly into the loop in the RV50 like this:

RV50 send-->time based effects-->RV50 Return
Guitar-->other pedals-->RV50 input

If that sounds good, then try rigging it to your pedal board. The idea is that your guitar's input signal will NOT be going through these effects; they'll be getting their input from the amp's SEND and will be delivering their output to the amp's RETURN.

Hope that helps.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Leon,

Do you consider trem a time based effect?

Peau d Orange · Post by **Peau d Orange** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:48 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by onewaycpr
 Yes LeonC that spells it out really simple for me. I think i'll do that.

Heres my set up:

Guitar > Volume Pedal > Rat > Cusack Screamer > T-Rex Delay > DL-4 > Cusack Tap'A'Whirl > Holy Grail > Amp

I will try:

Guitar > Volume Pedal > Rat > Cusack Screamer > Amp Input
+
Send > T-Rex Delay > DL-4 > Cusack Tap'A'Whirl > Holy Grail > Return

Do these FX Tremolo, Flange, and Phasers go in the Loop or stay in front?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would probably put the trem in front of the amp. Flange and phasers could go either place, and you would want to try both, but they would likely be better in the loop. With that said, my deja-Vibe sounds better in front.

LeonC · Post by **LeonC** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:50 pm

Trem...hmmm. It's not time-based no. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't go in the loop.

The ultimate acid test with any effect is to try it in front...and then try it in the loop and see which way sounds best to you. IME, most effects that are oriented towards modulating the pitch or amplitude are better in the loop...but YMMV and it's going to depend on your specific gear and how you use the stuff.

Why does some stuff work better in the loop? Well, I think it's often because some effects work best when distortion is applied to them...and other effects work better when they are applied to a distorted signal.

For example, delay and pitch-shifting effects (phasers, chorus, flangers, etc) sound better (to me, at least) when they are applied to a distorted signal. If you add distortion to the signal after you've applied these effects to the signal, then the distortion tends to ruin the effect...the effect gets "blurry" and indistinct. It loses it's fidelity.

Another problem with applying distortion (and more importantly, gain) to a signal with the delay effect on it is that it tends to make the delays get louder, more distorted and "out of control".

LeonC · Post by **LeonC** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:53 pm

So as for trem--that's amplitude modulation, right?--I think it often sounds best when it is applied to the already-distorted signal. It's probably less important than with delay or pitch-modulating effects. Others may not agree... Like I said, the ultimate acid-test is always to try the effect both in front and in the loop and see which one works best for you.

LeonC · Post by **LeonC** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:59 pm

BTW...if all you ever did was play clean guitar...then I think loops would not be needed [:0].

Also, if you ever have a chance to try out a Wet/Dry rig, you gotta give it a shot. If you like playing with distortion and delay (and/chorus, phase-shifting, flanging, etc.) this is REALLY the way to go, strictly from a tone standpoint. I used to do this and it was FAR AND ABOVE every other rig I've had in terms of killer sound. The idea is one rig is just for dry signal (no "wet" effects). The output of that rig is fed into the input of the wet rig. The wet rig is often a very high fidelity (or higher fidelity), clean-sounding system intended to accurately reproduce the sound of the dry rig, with added wet effects (reverb, delay, phase, etc.) There are lots of ways to do this; but any way you go about it, it's a lot more effort (and more expense, etc.)

So, you gotta be able to afford it and have the room (on stage AND in your car) and the extra time required to set it up. This is why it's mostly pros with roadies who go to the cost/effort to use wet/dry rigs.

LeonC · Post by **LeonC** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:52 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by LeonC
 Why does some stuff work better in the loop? Well, I think it's often because some effects work best when distortion is applied to them...and other effects work better when they are applied to a distorted signal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ooopsie. Left off the most obvious answer too: some stuff is not designed to work in a loop and some stuff is. The level of a line-level signal is different than an instrument level signal. Some effects will deal work well with either...some won't.

Who uses their FX LOOP?

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