My absolute CRAP experience with Orange.

Down · Post by **Down** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:09 am

I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post anything negative about this company on the forum but here goes anyway-

About a year ago I purchased an Orange AD200mk3 with two OBC410's new out of the box from a local dealer. Due to my naivety and never having any issues with previous Ampeg and Ashdown gear above the usual maintenance. I didn't do my homework to realize I was buying cheaply made expensive junk that was housed in really nice looking vinyde sporting a logo that used to be the flag for a great and reliable product.

My Orange amp lasted less than a dozen hours of playing time-why you ask? One of my OBC410's only had two of the speakers WIRED-not connected mind you-having wires connected to them at all. The cab was running at 4ohms-connected with the other cab (poorly wired with floss and shoddy connections out of phase at the correct 8ohm impedance) my 2.67 impedance fried my Output transformer.

The dealer pointed me to the only qualified (and supposedly Orange authorized) tech here in SLC Utah to resolve my loss of power issue. Several blown fuses and 6550's later-I'm put in contact with Will L. the tech at Orange in Georgia. He promptly lets me know that this tech is not authorized and never contacted them, and since I had taken my amplifier to him several times without any warranty repairs being authorized by Orange beforehand-my warranty was already done and void. Regardless of the improperly wired speaker cab causing my grief-which he swore was impossible even though I provided proof from the shop that had to do the re-wiring. Long story short-I was completely F&*#ed. No recourse from the dealer or Orange. The pointing fingers and the lack of accountability coupled with the absence of any warranty card/documentation from Orange from the get-go was a total nightmare. The complete overhaul and rewiring of the amp and cabs ended up costing a couple hundred dollars shy of the original price. I could've bought a custom Hiwatt with the money I ended up spending to get a working Orange rig! Lord knows I should have.

Unfortunately for me and any other sucker who doesn't do the research, the current owners and tech's at Orange have gone the Ampeg route; they've chosen quantity over quality. I wouldn't be half as bent out of shape if the handful of people I talked to at Orange USA weren't the most arrogant, unhelpful snobs i've ever talked to.

From the garbage wiring, the shoddy monkey-with-a-soldering-iron-connect-the-dots PC board construction, cheap as possibly can be crossovers, pitiful PC board mounted tube sockets, inadequate and barely up to rating transistors and filter caps-the only aspect of Orange's current line of gear that justifies the ridiculous prices is the aesthetic value. Nice to look at J-U-N-K.

Thank you for almost a year of grief and an empty wallet Orange.

I'll continue taking all my future business to the great folks and products of Electric Amps USA. I recommend anyone else to do the same. The amps are custom made the way they should be for less, they look and sound better, and the handful of people running the show are amazing.

P.S. The tiny Orange micro crush that was thrown in didn't work at all right out of the box either, go figure.

*****EDIT******

Please go look at the before, during, and after of my amp discussed in above post and the incredible work done by a true quality pro audio company.

The way this thing looks and sounds now should be the way it is out of box! Joel at Electric posted the work done with a short summary of the issues I'd had leading up to my sending it to EA-USA

http://www.planetoftheamps.com/orange-a ... ssamp.html

Heartsndspades · Post by **Heartsndspades** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:26 am

sorry to hear that mr. down, that really is a bummer. imo though it seems like it's your dealers fault to me. Will has been very helpful whenever i have called for assistance... on the other hand i havent heard much good about joel at electic, nor are they cheaper- although well built im sure.

timme_v · Post by **timme_v** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:33 am

I'm sorry to hear that man, its a sad/s--- story for you.

I was pissed off with Orange's support also when I first got my RV50. It wouldn't turn on after a couple of uses, so I took it back and it took a month to get back to me. Then for some reason, when I plugged a pedal in it wouldn't work.. All I got from the Orange people, and unfortunately from people here, was "it's not the amp, its either your pedals or your cables!!!". So I replaced the cables, and tried new pedals with the same problem. I then called orange again, told them and they told me the same thing. I took it to a local amp tech, and he told me something (i forget the name) isn't functioning correctly when there is a block (such as a pedal). He called Orange on my behalf and told them the problem, and I got a new one within a week with a new warranty.

Down · Post by **Down** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:52 am

I'll go on the record right now and say that Joel and co at Electric Amps have been nothing short of AMAZING, prompt, honest and helpful with every transaction that myself, all of my amplified bandmates and several other local gear-heads will also attest to. Although his enthusiasm about pro-audio is usually misread and his dialogue/history with some people on notable "stoner rock" forums has been crazy, not to mention the fallout with Matamp-I'll back his company and product up to the grave.

When you take into account the maintenance costs and add that to the overpriced tags on orange stuff vs. electric gear the EA stuff is a fraction of the equipment cost.

Electric Amps were actually the ones who overhauled the entire AD200 from scratch with their parts. The thing is an absolute beast.

Go check out the entire overhaul process step by step at Planetoftheamps.com.

dylan · Post by **dylan** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:24 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Electric Amps were actually the ones who overhauled the entire AD200 from scratch with their parts. The thing is an absolute beast.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

...and they charged you nearly what the amp cost you in the first place???, no wonder your bitter!!!;)

Blainy · Post by **Blainy** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:36 am

Alex Auxier, who is the sales manager in USA for Orange is a regular contributor on this forum. I think he might have something to say - clearly the dealer should not have referred you to a technician, he should have got the goods replaced immedialtely. I suspect he is legally culpable for referring you to a technical who was not authorised, and you should therefore have redress to the money you have lost.

You are of cpourse allowed to say negative things to say about Orange, particularly when they are not simply a matter of personal opinion.

kungfu · Post by **kungfu** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:44 am

It is great to have negative feedbacks as well as the positive ones in this forum. And I'm totally sorry for the things you have lived.

Having 3 Orange amps and 1 Orange cab,I've also had some good&bad experiences with Orange(like my RV100 which I've been waiting for to be repaired)

blackcloud45 · Post by **blackcloud45** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:46 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Blainy
 Alex Auxier, who is the sales manager in USA for Orange is a regular contributor on this forum. I think he might have something to say - clearly the dealer should not have referred you to a technician, he should have got the goods replaced immedialtely. I suspect he is legally culpable for referring you to a technical who was not authorised, and you should therefore have redress to the money you have lost.

You are of cpourse allowed to say negative things to say about Orange, particularly when they are not simply a matter of personal opinion.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

+1.

Down · Post by **Down** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:14 am

Thank you to everyone for your understanding so far-Please check out my edit

Dylan-The cost of many many replaced tubes, new Output transformer, new tube sockets, new turret boards and all the other guts in the amp, wiring and crossovers on both speaker cabinets and ALL the labor for each trip to the bench for each piece of gear did end up costing me a few hundred dollars shy of my original cost. Any reasonable person would be bitter.

In response to Blainy-in all my communication with the people at Orange-the buck was passed because of a couple things A) Lack of established dealer-company-repair tech protocol B) Lack of documented and/or photographic proof of the issues being obtained from the get-go from me (I was basically told by Orange that I could just be making it all up) C) Lack of documentation being provided to me from the beginning. Regardless of who was at fault their liability disappeared because I made the mistake of taking the amp immediately to our local tech at the dealers suggestion-which I was told would be speedier for me than shipping the amp to (presumably at the time-the UK) for an evaluation/replacement.

I just wanted the thing fixed immediately and I ended up paying the price.

The dealer DID offer to ship on his dime my amp to Orange but both myself and the dealer were forewarned that my Tubes, Transformers, PC Board, Tube Sockets, and Caps (which had been replaced by that point) would not be covered at all and not to expect my amp back for at least 2 months.

The bouncing back and forth between dealer, company and tech (local and Orange) ended up becoming a giant clusterf$#k with me paying the price in the end.

I'm absolutely expecting to see PLENTY of finger pointing and have my handling of the situation be called into question (again) by any Orange employee who runs by my post. Whats happened is happened and i'm not putting this out there for any recourse or apology more as a warning to anyone looking to purchase their gear. Make sure you know how and when and who to get it fixed from without voiding your warranty. Test ALL of your cabinets before you pay for them...and make sure you have a few extra sets of power tubes handy if you're playing lots of shows...

blackcloud45 · Post by **blackcloud45** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:43 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...and make sure you have a few extra sets of power tubes handy if you're playing lots of shows...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This goes without saying for ANY tube amp.

Alex, if you are reading this at some point, I would like to suggest that Orange add a list of approved techs to the website, searchable by zip code. If there aren't any approved techs and the only recourse is to send it in (as far as warranty coverage goes), that would be nice to know. Let me give a for instance. I just searched authorized dealers in my zip code. There is a merchant near my house (within 5 miles) that is selling tiny terrors and PPC112's. Now if I go buy a TT there and ask the guy, "Are you an authorized dealer?", I'm willing to bet that his response will be, "yes." Then when my new TT has a problem, I return to where I bought it and ask about warranty service. They refer me to their 'authorized' tech. He screws up my amp and since he isn't really authorized, I'm in the same boat as Down.

The above scenario hasn't happened to me. However, there is a merchant near my house that I don't think is an official dealer. In my mind this could lead to the scenario above.

Additionally, I have had my out of warranty RV50 checked out by an 'authorized' tech that was recommended to me by a local merchant that is an official dealer. This tech could not figure out my problem. He was in fact working out of a storage unit. Another interesting facet to this was when he asked me what ohm load my cabinet was as that could be causing my problem. I advised that I had a brand new, stock Orange PPC4X12 running @ 16ohms and he freaked! Wow, he exclaimed, that's high! How would you even wire that up to run @ 16 ohms? he asked me. Yikes, I thought! Needless to say, I grabbed my amp and got out of there as quickly as possible before just being around him made my own IQ drop. I wound up fixing it myself as I don't trust anyone anymore. Don't get me wrong, I love my Oranges and my Rocker 30 hasn't given me a lick of trouble. I do think this may need to be addressed.

Food for thought...

dylan · Post by **dylan** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:47 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Regardless of who was at fault their liability disappeared because I made the mistake of taking the amp immediately to our local tech at the dealers suggestion-which I was told would be speedier for me than shipping the amp to (presumably at the time-the UK) for an evaluation/replacement.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

i would be more annoyed at the bloke you brought the amp from, as it seems to be his fault for voiding your warentee!!! i probably would not go on to the manafacturers forum and bitch about the quality of a production line I.E not hand wired!!! amp.

blackcloud45 · Post by **blackcloud45** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:50 am

Yes, I agree. The person that sold you the amp to start with should be first on the hit list.

fastboy · Post by **fastboy** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:57 am

That sounds like a really horrible experience and on that note, I must remember to register my warranties with Orange.

With all the horror stories on here and harmony central, this is the only thing that worries me about owning my Rockerverb 50 combo although I know mine is a 2008 model as was ordered up specifically for me and from what I've read it seems to be some of the older Rockerverbs that had issues.

So far, I'm 3 months in and maybe a dozen shows behind me and so far, it's never missed a beat. I always take my tiny terror for backup.

Does anyone know, do Orange HQ in the Uk do servicing / repairs? If so, I'll be in luck as they're only about 40 miles away from me.

Post by **bclaire** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:44 am

Sorry you have had such a difficult experience. I have the AD200B and both of the Orange bass cabs and they're stellar. Better than any of the Amopeg stuff for sure.

However, that all said, your dealer should have borne the brunt of the repair cost, not you.

Damn-Deal-Done · Post by **Damn-Deal-Done** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:51 am

Instead of fixing the amp, Electric just re built it? Reads a bit like an advertisement for Electric to me.

My absolute CRAP experience with Orange.

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